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  1. #1
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    Getting the Right Torque

    I'm comfortable using a torque wrench in conjunction with sockets to tighten bolts properly. What I can't figure out is how to get the correct torque when using a pedal wrench, allen key, BB wrench or any other tool that has a handle on it.

    Is there a way to do this rather than "by feel"?

  2. #2
    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    I use a combination of feel and common sense for areas where I cannot use my torque wrench.
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    Somewhere in CA
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    You can purchase allen key sockets that will fit your torque wrench. That's what I've done. Other than that I guess it's by feel.

    cheers

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    The following set is a bit pricy???

    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...8&storeId=6970

    But I don't think the shorter items I've seen at Sears and at the recommended Harbor Freight would work in some bike situations.

    I've never used a torque wrench but now with a carbon fiber I am investigating the tool. I do not want to damage the frame or components.

    Sears had a ratchet one on sale till yesterday. Kind of big 3/8 socket and some dial in the handle. The instructions - a "feel" the release concept. As I've said, never used one before.

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    There are "crows foot" wrenches that have a 3/8" or 1//2" square drive hole so a ratchet or torque wrench will fit them but an off-set open-end wrench so you can grip things like pedal axles, the Park BB tools and other items you can't get a socket over.

    Park sells a 32 mm crows foot for use with its bb tool. You have to multiply the torque setting by a factor to compensate for the off-set and Park discusses this on their web site.

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    Thanks for the replies. I've yet to strip any threads using the "feel" method but I did have the drive side of a Veloce BB creep out of its shell enough to bind up my cranks. I was out for the first long ride on a newly-built Ciocc and about 2.5 miles from home when the fun ended. I had to walk home in the pouring rain.

    When I got dried off, I pulled off the cranks, removed the BB, cleaned it and the shell and reassembled it. This time, I really got on it when I put the BB back in - so far, so good with a couple hundred miles on it now . I considered using Loctite 242 on it but read conflicting advice here so I put the BB back in dry.

    Hopefully, it'll stay in this time. John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyman991
    This time, I really got on it when I put the BB back in - so far, so good with a couple hundred miles on it now . I considered using Loctite 242 on it but read conflicting advice here so I put the BB back in dry.Hopefully, it'll stay in this time. John
    You don't want to assemble the bottom bracket really dry as corrosion could (will) make it difficult to impossible to remove when you want to. Either use grease or a couple of wraps of the very thin teflon tape plumber's use on pipe threads to wrap the cups before you install them. The secret is to torque them in hard. Campy recommends 612 inch-pounds for it's bottom brackets which is a VERY high torque, much more than you'd use without guidence from a torque wrench. Loctite 242 is fine for installing bottom brackets but should be unnecessary.

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    dangerous with tools halfbiked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider
    There are "crows foot" wrenches that have a 3/8" or 1//2" square drive hole so a ratchet or torque wrench will fit them but an off-set open-end wrench so you can grip things like pedal axles, the Park BB tools and other items you can't get a socket over.

    Park sells a 32 mm crows foot for use with its bb tool. You have to multiply the torque setting by a factor to compensate for the off-set and Park discusses this on their web site.

    If you mount the crow's foot socket 90 to the arm of the torque wrench, you do not have to muck with the torque setting. I have been shown the math before, but don't have it handy to show you too.

    The challenge for, say, pedal torque, would be in finding a thin enough crow's foot socket.

    For the poster above about the spendy nothern tools hex sockets, Craftsman has a set for a much more reasonable price; they are neither as long nor have the wobble ends.

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    Hillrider,

    Although the Campy instructions that came with the BB say to install it without grease, I felt uncomfortable doing so. I'm a huge believer in anti-seize or grease (when specified) especially when dissimilar metals are involved. I work on old outboards as a hobby and have seen the effects of galvanic corrosion too many times.

    I think I'll remove the BB and reassemble it with a light coat of grease as per your advice. Any reason to use anti-seize compound instead? This is what I use for steel spark plugs going into aluminum heads. Thanks for your help. John

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    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahn
    Sears had a ratchet one on sale till yesterday. Kind of big 3/8 socket and some dial in the handle. The instructions - a "feel" the release concept. As I've said, never used one before.
    You can order a small 1/4" torque wrench from Sears calibrated in in-lbs. Be careful with the large torque wrenches. they are marked in ft-lbs. One ft-lb is equal to 12 in-lbs. Bike torque specs are often listed in in-lbs. If you get mixed up and blindly follow the wrench, you'll do more harm than good. A 3/8" torwue wrench has a long handle so it doesn't take much pull to twist off a small bolt.

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    For my method, you need a combination wrench and a spring type fish scale calibrated in pounds. Measure the distance from the center of the fastener to the center of the closed end of the combination wrench in inches. Now put the hook in the closed end of the combination wrench and pull at a right angle to the wrench until you reach the proper no. of pounds on the fish scale. Calculate the pounds of force necessary on the spring scale by taking the Torque spec (in inch pounds) divided by legnth you measure in inches.

    A bit of a pain, but it the torque is crucial, this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supcom
    You can order a small 1/4" torque wrench from Sears calibrated in in-lbs. Be careful with the large torque wrenches. they are marked in ft-lbs. One ft-lb is equal to 12 in-lbs. Bike torque specs are often listed in in-lbs. If you get mixed up and blindly follow the wrench, you'll do more harm than good. A 3/8" torwue wrench has a long handle so it doesn't take much pull to twist off a small bolt.
    Thanks for that.

    The Sears one is 25-250 in-lbs or 3.61-29.03Nm (metric)

    Model 944593 - again 3/8 socket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyman991
    Hillrider,
    Although the Campy instructions that came with the BB say to install it without grease, I felt uncomfortable doing so. I'm a huge believer in anti-seize or grease (when specified) especially when dissimilar metals are involved. I work on old outboards as a hobby and have seen the effects of galvanic corrosion too many times.
    Are you sure Campy's instructions were to install the bottom bracket cups dry or for the crank arms? I know they recommend installing crank arms on their square taper spindles dry I don't think they recommend a dry fit for the bottom bracket cups. And yes, I've seen way too much galvanic corrosion to trust a non-lubricated fit of even similar metals.

    I think I'll remove the BB and reassemble it with a light coat of grease as per your advice. Any reason to use anti-seize compound instead? This is what I use for steel spark plugs going into aluminum heads. Thanks for your help. John
    Grease or, better yet, teflon tape work just fine for most installations. Steel or Al bottom bracket cups installed in Ti frames are often lubed with anti-seize and it can't hurt, but even Litespeed says it isn't necessary.

    Steel sparkplugs into Al heads are a whole different story. How hot is your bottom bracket going to get and how many extreme temperature cycles is it going to experience?

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    HillRider,

    From the BB booklet (publication 7225218), the instructions proceed immediately from "Clean the inside of the bottom bracket cage." to "Fit the cartridge (A-Fig. 1) in the bottom bracket cage, inserting it from the right side." No mention anywhere of grease on either surface.

    Like I said, it seemed odd to me at the time but I obediantly followed the directions. John

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