koine2002

I'm considering switching to loose balls in my bicycles headsets. It's currently a retainer, and I just don't like those. Is this an acceptable thing to do? The headset on my KHS is a Marin labelled Tange aheadset. My Bridgestone RB-4, since the rest of the bike is Shimano 600, I'd assume is a 600 Threaded headset. It's really the Bridgestone I'd like to change out, since the original bearings are OE, based on how grimey and gellified they were (I bought it used), and even after a cleaning, they're pretty choppy unless I allow for some play. The races and cups look fine.

ofofhy

It will be one of the best things you can do for your headset. Use grade 25 bearing balls.

powers2b

By eliminating the bearing retainer you will be able to add more ball bearings.
More balls = less load for each ball = longer bearing life

Enjoy

Ed Holland

Absolutely no pitfalls to this, go ahead with confidence.

I assembled one headset recently, supplied with bearing retainers to find that the retainer actually prevented free running of the headset - yes the retainer was inserted with the correct orientation. I reassembled without the retainers and extra bearing balls, leaving a silky smooth steering action....

Ed

Sheldon Brown

If you have access to a work stand, this job is a lot easier if you mount the bike in the stand upside down.

Sheldon "Topsy Turvy" Brown

cascade168

BikeToolsEtc has a nice little reference cheat sheet in their catalog for replacing caged balls with loose. I will paste it up here:

" Component Loose Bearing Sizes (Exceptions Exist)
Components..................Size..........................Bearing Count
Bottom brackets.............1/4".........................11 each side
1" headset.....................5/32".......................25 per cup
1 1/8" headset................5/32 or 3/16"............20-28 per cup
1 1/4" headset................5/32 or 3/16"............26-31 per cup
front hub........................3/16"......................10 per side
rear hub.........................1/4"........................9 per side
pedals............................5/32 or 1/8".............10-15 per side
SPD pedals.....................3/32".......................lots
If in doubt, fill space with bearings and remove one.
It is possible to replace the balls in a bearing retainer that's in
good shape. Just pop 'em out and pop in new ones of the same
size. "


As they say, "exceptions exist", but I have yet to find one myself.
It's a pretty good list.

koine2002

Thanks everyone. I will do the switch as soon as I can get the LB's to put in. We're snowed in with 1/2 inch of snow! I don't dare trust the drivers here in Oklahoma with such things--even with only 1/2 inch--they stop for no apparent reason while driving up a snow/ice covered hill for pete's sake!

FLBandit

I was wondering about this for Bottom Brackets. My daughter has an older Schwinn that I just redid the BB on. It seemed like loose bearings would be better there also.

simplify

Absolutely true. I couldn't believe the difference when I tossed the retainers in my bottom bracket. In fact, I can't think of any application where loose balls wouldn't be superior to balls in retainers. Often allows room for more balls, always allows more freedom of movement. That's a good thing.

cuda2k

I agree that loose balls feels better, but dang was it a nightmare attempting to put the top race of my threaded headset back on my schwinn with loose balls. I never did get it right and eventually took the bike in for a new headset (it was about time anyways) at the LBS. Every time I screwed the top race down on the fork, as soon as the greased bearings made contact with the race they would move down near the fork tube and get wedged under the race instead of riding on the proper line. I agree that it's better, but for headsets - I'll stick with retainers and keep my sanity.

ofofhy

Had you followed Sheldon's advice, you might not have had this problem... See post #5

cuda2k

Tried that and every other imaginable idea. Turned it upside down, right side up, and was pondering how to turn it inside out by the end of it.

ofofhy

I've never had that problem when the cups are loaded with a good amount of grease prior to placing the bearing balls in them. It acts like glue and keeps the balls from shifting, kind of like jockey shorts.

Sheldon Brown

Actually, there are some headsets that are a real bear to install with loose balls, because the balls have to be at a particular radius, neither too far in nor too far out.

Generally, headsets are the one place where I like caged bearings. It's not like a smoother rolling headset will make you any faster, after all.

Then again, I once tried building up a Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hub with loose balls, that was a SERIOUS P.I.T.A....never again!

Sheldon "Retainers Have Their Place" Brown

simplify

Of course not, but a greater number of bearing balls will disperse the load onto more surface area, to take the pounding without as much probability of pitting the races, no?

Sheldon Brown

Possibly. Since the heavy load is on the lower half of the headset, it sometimes makes sense to use loose balls on the bottom, with a cage on top.

However, generally I wouldn't switch to loose balls except as a way to repair a damaged headset, unless I couldn't find a suitable retainer to fit.

See: https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/indexed-steering.html

Sheldon "Headsets And Seatposts Are The Least Interesting Of Bicycle Parts To Me" Brown

peterbarson

I think that since I have my bike hanging up for it's winters nap, I will take your advice, I was thinking of this anyway.
thanks

cascade168

I just recently overhauled a bike that I had not touched in years. The cheap headset had caged bearings and the steering had become noticeably indexed. I thought, for sure, that I'd be buying a new headset but figured I'd try loose balls first. Replacing the caged bearings with loose balls almost completely eliminated the indexing. While I would not say the steering is "silky" smooth, it's now very good and the lumpiness you get from indexing is gone. So, for my beater winter bike, I now have nice steering for the price of 50 5/32" loose balls. Presumably, if I had loose balls in the headset in the first place, I never would have had the indexing (brinelling) problem in the first place. So, I'm a believer.

FWIW, I had no problem installing the bearings and having them behave. I just put a nice bead of grease in the top cup and on the crown race and then placed the bearings in the grease - one at a time -
and then carefully reinstalled the fork. I found that by placing the bearings on the crown race instead of up_in_the_bottom_cup it saves you from doing anything upside down. I just use tweezers to pick them up and place them in the grease. It takes a little patience and a couple of minutes.

With a half a foot of snow falling already today, even loose balls are not going to help me with that
Time to wax the snowboard.