MrCjolsen

Well, not that puzzling. I just don't know what I'm doing.

Last week I broke a spoke on the drive side of my rear wheel. I got the wheel true and round. Rounder, I think, than before. I checked the tension (by touch and ear) and every spoke seemed more or less the same.

On my way to work, I checked them after about 8 miles, and the whole non-drive side was loose. Some such that I could turn the nipple with my fingers. But the wheel remained basically straight.

Basically, the whole wheel has loosened up. I tightened every spoke on both sides. Not a lot, but some took as much as two whole turns before I felt any tension.

So I'm at work. I have a spoke wrench. Should I go around and tighten every spoke and then true the wheel? Should I use the front wheel as a guide as to how tight they should be?

When I tighten every spoke, should I then back off 1/4 a turn?

MrCjolsen

I tightened every loose spoke, trued the wheel, then gave every spoke 1/4 of a turn except for some pretty tight ones on the drive side.

Am I doing this right? I just need to get home.

crusty_pedals

the only reason all the spokes should get loose would be on a brand new wheel. and even then. they shouldn't be THAT loose. sounds to me like the nipples may not be holding so well. maybe it needs to be rebuilt

simplify

That should get you home. Remember to stress-relieve the spokes by grasping several of them and squeezing, then check your true-ness again. If it's still okay, and if your spoke tension is adequate and fairly consistent, you should make it home fine. You may have ongoing problems with spoke breakage, since there could already be some stress-fractures starting at the elbows from the wheel having been ridden undertensioned in the past. If you have another spoke break, it may be time to rebuild the wheel with new spokes.

simplify

If they start out without enough tension, I think it's alot easier for them to get even looser as the wheel is ridden. So maybe the tension at the outset still wasn't enough.

wrench

Sound like the overall wheel spoke tension is too low. Each spoke is loaded/unloaded every time the wheel goes around. If the tension of the spokes is low, they will be completely unloaded and the nipples will unscrew themselves.
Tighten each spoke at least a full turn but in quarter turns at a time. The drive side spokes should give a distinct ringing tone when plucked.
With a normal spoke key, considerable effort should be required to turn the drive side spokes if the wheel is up to correct tension.
Be careful not to alter the dish of the wheel. As the spokes on the non-drive side are longer due to offset, a full turn on the non-drive side will move the rim sideways further than a full turn on the drive side.

MrCjolsen

I'm pretty sure I loosened a number of them when I was trying to get the wheel perfectly round.

I think I got it. The spokes on the back sound just like the front.

MrCjolsen

Well, not exactly like the front wheel. Should I give them all another 1/4 turn?

Nessism

Your spoke tension is too low. Tension the drive side rear as tight as possible, compare to a known good wheel by pressing on the spokes and/or turning a few nipples. Adjust the non-drive side rear to get the proper dish.

DannoXYZ 

Without a spoke-tension gauge, it's really hard to figure out how much tension you actually have. About 100-120kgf is about right. Another way to get in the ballpark is to tighten all the spokes up even around and around in many passes. Keep on tightening the spokes until the wheel starts to taco, then back off until it's round again.

Could also be you have worn-out nipple threads from constant truing, but it's more likely they're too loose.

MrCjolsen

I think that yesterday when I trued the wheel, I had a misunderstanding of what "tight" meant.

I haven't trued the wheel that much until now.

ctp

That's a common myth, but certainly a myth. Check it with a tension meter sometime if you don't believe me. Or read Brandt. Or both.

MrCjolsen

How hard is that to do? I imagine if I do it myself it would be far cheaper than buying a new wheel. Could I get stronger, heavier spokes?

I have no other issues with the wheel. It's a low end, stock Alex AT450 rim on a Trek 1000. But would the wheel I build myself be stronger than another wheel I get for <$100 at a bike shop? As a commuter/clydesdale strength is more important than weight here.

ctp

I've just bought some brand new wheels on ebay - 36 hole XT hubs, 14g straight guage spokes, and Ryno Lite rims, for just a bit more than the hubs alone would have cost me. Got them quick, checked their build, and they are every bit as good as I would have built. I needed them (well, the rear actually) for my Xtracycle since my friend and I decided to tough test my old rear wheel (I think the term "catastrophic failure" could be best applied here). If you know what you are looking for there are great finds on ebay every day...but caveat emptor of course.

Then again, if your local shop has a competent wheelbuilder who can build up a clydesdale strength wheel for you, and then stand behind it, you may be better off in the long run. You could of course rebuild your old wheel, but that's a can of worms even an old pro like me doesn't always like to jump into.