dooley

Wait, Americans don't care about the environment, who knew?!

duane041

With a 4 oz bottle of paint, I was able to do a frame and fork and have some left over. Of course, I wasn't trying to cover a black primer coat with white . I used a Paasche VL airbrush, 20-30 psi, and used a little over 3 oz of actual color. Depending on how well the Gem colors cover, you should be able to do a frame with the one bottle. This is, of course, figuring you use an airbrush as I did, which GREATLY reduces overspray.
You are right about the metalflake colors. Only problem I had was getting the flakes to pass through the 5mm tip on the airbrush. I eventually figured out a trick, and it worked great. Little autumn orange metallic flecks against a deep black background. Awesome.
The Auto Air colors work differenlty than regular paints. First, they dry dull, so it's hard to tell what the finished product will look like. Secondly, they must be clearcoated. If you don't want to deal with expensive clears, you can use Duplicolor Engine Clear, which is pretty durable stuff as far as spray bombs go.
If you decide to go with the Gem Chameleon, I recommend following the instructions closely. There may be certain steps you must do in order to get the proper finish.
Good luck!

mtbikerinpa

To answer the earlier question, Yes urethane paint requires a hardener to work propperly. The hardening agent is usually included in the color coat but added to the clearcoat(at least on the MartinSenour systems). Without the hardner it will be soft and lack the polishability(new word ). It is that aspect that makes the hardened systems worth it in my view. What you sacrifice to get it in the short run pays off in durability and great finish for years(urethane clearcoat is rated for up to 15 yrs against sun fade).

The hardening agent is what makes the fumes highly hazardous. IsoCyanate is a potentially nerve damaging byproduct gas that will be emitted for as much as a week after application. Some people have a natural sensitivity to it and some will aquire it. It can vary from as minor as a sinus reaction to a full siezure. For this reason it is important to maintain airflow throughout the entire process and allow sufficient curing time. Generally, if you can smell it, don't.

halfspeed

Since the Createx paints require a urethane clear coat, it pretty much eliminates the safety and environmental reasons for using them. Oh well.

duane041

I will be ordering the Gloss Clear from Nelson (their order form/page is pretty clumsy, and I don't have time to figure it out right this moment ), and will report back with the results. If it works as described, I'll ditch the urethane clear and be a happy guy.

San Rensho 

In Miami, FL. Several paint suppliers do it here, I would check around, any major metropolitan area should have it.

BryE

Yes, definitely keep us posted. If Nelson clear works over Createx (and I see no reason why it wouldn't) then every time someone asks, "What's a good, durable paint for my bike?", we'll have a better answer than "Crappy spray bomb or expensive pro job / powdercoat". I think I'm going to do a little surfing for a decent airbrush now.

ctp

That's almost funny.

Untrue, but almost funny.

Grand Bois

I think you'll have a hard time shooting a smooth and glossy clear coat with an air brush. They just don't put out enough paint. I have a Badger 150 that I've used a lot for painting models. I'd look for a touch up gun on eBay. They cost less than airbrushes. You can get a POS for $15 or a good one for as little as $50. I plan to make do with my Devilbiss JGA-502 full-size gun. I'll probably waste 75% of my paint as overspray.

halfspeed

Can you clarify a bit? What's the difference between a touch-up gun and an air brush? Which is the Devilbiss? The Badger? Basic questions, I'm sure, but I'm not a paint guy yet.

Grand Bois

Here's a high quality touch up gun:
https://tinyurl.com/cbea4
I think it's the best tool for the job. It's a smaller gun for smaller jobs. A bicycle frame is a very small job.
You can look at spray guns at spraygundepot.com and airbrushes at airbrushdepot.com. They sell only high quality stuff. You can get much cheaper tools at places like Harbor Freight, but you get what you pay for, IMO.

As I mentioned before, I had very good results using a tankless compressor and an inexpensive "homeowners" gun from Sears. I was refinishing furniture with polyurethane varnish and that's a similar job to shooting clearcoats on a bike frame. I wouldn't hesitate to use that equipment to paint a bike if I hadn't sold it.

The Devilbiss JGA that I use now was the most popular gun for auto refinishing for about 20 years, but now eveyone has gone to HVLP and gravity feed. I'm sticking with my old fashioned equipment. It works for me. I guess it's kind of like friction vs index shifting.

mtbikerinpa

You bring up a good point about the airbrush not putting out enough volume. The tricky thing with a urethane clearcoat is unlike conventional laquer and enamels, you do not want to do so many light coats. The reason is that the urethane will not atomise and dry as quickly even though it will appear to be at first. You will want to make a 2-3 light strokes with the gun so that it looks almost smooth(it will look a little textured if it is right, then in a couple of minutes it will 'melt in'. If it is smooth when you apply it, then it will make a run.
The point where it gets tricky is if you make it too light and want to go back. There is a certain point listed on the can or the data sheet that comes with the paint/clearcoat where you do not want to recoat until it has dried. Usually that period is between 5-10 mins to start, all the way to hours on the other end. The time varies between brands and series, so as a lot of questions from your supplier.
There is a chance you will not be able to get certain higher grade urethanes in california. Cali and several areas of the country have limitations on higher VOC(volatile compound) paint products.

duane041

Just got it ordered, and once I receive it, I'll try it out on a practice frame I have at work. I hope it works well, because I'm really tired of using this expensive, nasty stuff.
As far as airbrushes, someone else posted that airbrushdepot.com has airbrushes, as does www.dixieart.com
I have been using Paasche and really like them. They are easy to set up, easy to clean, and work well. Plus, I treat mine like I don't like them, and they still work.

cs1

Usually the high temp of powder coating, 375-400 deg, is way to high for paint to survive.

Tim

mtbikerinpa

Powder under solvent paint, not vice versa. But, I bake enamel parts at 300 deg without issues. Obviously do not leave it in there for more than an hour or two. The main concern is the application of powdercoat can be hindered by surface coatings(that is how it is self leveling), thus you would be lacking in consistent thickness.

cs1

300 deg is less than the required 375-400 deg powder coating cures at. The powder coaters I've spoken to all said no paint anywhere on the piece. Paint under powder coat according to the experts is a no no.

Tim

Whilesryan

whats a good spray paint to use? rusto or duplicolor?

surgeonstone

I would stick with a place that specializes in bike frames, I have a 1976 Fresci frame, I had it repainted by Cycleart in CA, fantastic job of your design that makes a true masterpiece. However, you could take the money spent and purchase a fairly good new complete bike. So it depends on how much you want a classic.

surgeonstone

I would stick with a place that specializes in bike frames, I have a 1976 Fresci frame, I had it repainted by Cycleart in CA, fantastic job of your design that makes a true masterpiece. However, you could take the money spent and purchase a fairly good new complete bike. So it depends on how much you want a classic.