Pete Hamer

I just recieved the new Phil Wood bottom bracket tool for installing Phil Wood bearings into Shimano Hollow Tech 2 bottom bracket cups. Here is a link to the photo.

https://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/sho...&size=big&cat=

Rev.Chuck

Will that work on any of the other outboard bearings?

Pete Hamer

Uhh....I'm not really sure. If they have 6805 cartridge bearings it probably will. I'll have to figure that one out. If it does it will get a lot more use.

white lobster

FSA lists a set of ceramic cartridge bearings that fits both MegaExo and DuraAce (part number 230-4060 ... no price yet), so it would appear that the Phil bearings will fit both. Good stuff.

Pete Hamer

I'd love to get my hands on a set of ceramic bearings. I've been looking at them on www.bocabearings.com but it's like $70 per bearing. Seems like I should be able to put them on the shops expense account for "research" or something. Have you ever tried any?

white lobster

Have I ever tried any? That's funny stuff. I can't even afford grade 25 balls these days ...

While ceramic bearings definitely fall under the "mere mortals would never notice the benefit" category, they could make an awesome upgrade for the spendy customer. It's not something most shops would offer, and it's the kind of service that, if done right, could really help keep a good customer coming back.

Of course, you'd have to ride them first to make sure they're up to snuff. I'd say this is a valid research expense. Go big!

Pete Hamer

I know what you mean, those ceramics are insane expensive. I keep seeing those bike mag articles about "inside the pros bikes" and they have been listing ceramic bearings. I'll have to find a local pro that I can talk into testing them out.

AfterThisNap

just from a bit of industrial/automotive input, ceramic bearings won't really be any better in a bike, but are more for super high-performance applications where the bearing spins at tens of thousands of RPMs and needs to maintain integrity longer than a conventional bearing.
I suppose pros use them to squeeze out every last bit of efficiency from their ride, even if only percieved. Do they still use titanium BBs?

TallRider

What's the supposed benefit of ceramic bearings?
Stronger? Well, steel bearings don't fail for lack of strength.
Less likely to pit or cause pitting? Possibly room for improvement.
Less friction? Silly professional; bearings don't slide, they roll.

I'm curious on this one, actually. Really.

Pete Hamer

Just got an e-mail from Phil Wood about which Brand of B.Bs their new tool works with.

"FSA and Race face are confirmed.
Truvativ and Bontragers will not work."

white lobster

Ceramic bearings supposedly rob less energy.

Near as I can tell, it has to do with roundness, and ball bearings most certainly do create friction. A perfectly round, perfectly hard ball rolling on a perfectly flat, perfectly hard surface may not produce any friction. But try rolling a pebble between your palm and a concrete sidewalk, though. You'll definitely feel some heat.

Grade 25 (Campy Record quality) balls are round to within 25 millionths of an inch. That's pretty effing round. Zipp claims that their ceramic balls are round to within 1 millionth of an inch. How much this actually helps, I'm not sure. But if you use grade 1000 balls (very common cheapo quality) in a nice hub, you can definitely feel the difference.

The thing about ceramic balls that seems odd to me is that, since they're always used in cartridge bearings, doesn't the friction created by the seals more than cancel out any savings due to increased sphericity?

Pete Hamer

Part of the thing that interests me about the ceramics is the claimed durability. If they last 2-3times as long then they aren't much more expensive in the end and you didn't have to do as much maintenance in the meantime. Some companies are putting ceramic balls in their cup and cone hubs so the seal drag wouldn't be as bad. Maybe in time the price will come down.