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Old 01-30-06, 01:30 PM   #1
comradehoser
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HDMP/Framesaver sub?

Bunch of folks mentioned that AMSOIL Heavy Duty Metal Protector is a good substitute for Framesaver at a lesser cost. I have a '71 super course that has some internal rust. I'm planning on getting rid of that with a good long-handled bristle-brush and some solvent or WD-40, and then I'd like to rust-proof it. I also have a new steel frame I need to proof for rain commuting.

Problem is, I live on the east coast, and all the auto shops/hardware stores I've called have never heard of the stuff. The AMSOIL website has some kooky ordering procedures.

Does anyone know of a shop in the DC area that carries HDMP, or, alternately, of a product that is similar? I've heard of "oilwax", there's some crystalline-bonding rust cleaner and inhibitor at Home Despot, marine oil....? I know the linseed way, but seems like a bit of a PITA.

Any products to *avoid*?
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Old 01-30-06, 04:04 PM   #2
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I think one poster here found HDMP at a marine supply house. I got mine at a local Advanced Auto Parts store. You could always break down and buy Weigel's Frame Saver if all else fails. Bike Tools Etc. carries it if your LBS doesn't.
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Old 01-30-06, 04:40 PM   #3
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One can of framesaver will do 3 or 4 frames. You use it once per frame. It's not like a lube that you have to re-apply. It isn't that expensive.

Bob
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Old 01-30-06, 04:47 PM   #4
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Linseed oil? interesting, care to share, Comrade?
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Old 01-30-06, 04:57 PM   #5
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I found what looks to be the same stuff at an ATV/dirt bike store.. it's called IronClad by Zep... I used it ony my frame.. I would hold off on using the wd40 if you plan to fog in the waxoil stuff.. It leaves a film behind.. what I used instead to floss my tubes was spray gumout.. I sprayed it in.. and used pices of 12 gauge electrical wire with pieces of a sock at the end like a pipe cleaner.. and it worked pretty good.. then I used a r/c car antenna tube fixed onto a spray nozzle to allow me to reach deep into tubes while fogging.. the amsoil mphd seemed to be the EXACT same product as the frame saver according to previous discussions in here, and I suspect the Zep's IronClad is also.. I paid $7 for a huge spray can.. I have heard frame saver is very expensive.. gotta be careful tho, the fumes are dangerous.. same with the gumout.. i did this over a couple nights and I may have lost a few brain cells even being careful..
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Old 01-30-06, 05:03 PM   #6
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i should also say.. I did many fog in coats into every orafice.. including seat and chain stays and forks.. by spraing into the small ventholes with the r/c antenna etc.. when the smoke cleared and all was dried.. I made sure all the vent holes were cleared of the stuff so it could still breathe.. and after many coats on this one bike, you cant even tell the can was used yet...
I also used this on the nipples of my new wheels.. this is on my winter road ride so my fear was the corrosion from salt would corrode the nipples and make the wheels not trueable later.. so I took a little plastic cap and sprayed the IronClad into it, and used a little hobby paint brush to paint it onto the nipple threads while it was still wet.. it soaked right down into the threads.. I did two coats on every nipple and it seems to have given be a real good coverage..and didn't take that long...
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Old 01-30-06, 05:09 PM   #7
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if you try the r/c antenna trick, actually even the gumout tubed worked pretty good but wasnt as long.. the r/w tube was about a foot long etc.. you must remember to spray the can upside down with the tube still on it to clear it out between coats.. or it will plug as the stuff solids up.. this stuff is nice.. it sprays in easy like wd40 almost.. but as the stuff evaporates it leaves behind a waxy oil base film.. you cant count on being able to spray eveything directly tho so you must work slowly in stages fogging it in, without doing too much at once and causing it to run all over and make a mess, possibly plugging some of the tubes and/or causing pooling ...
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Old 01-30-06, 05:12 PM   #8
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thank you! the antenna idea is a pretty good one.

as for the linseed oil--some folks use boiled linseed oil (I think it's the boiled) to coat the inside of their tubes. I know it works because my dad's used it on some exterior wood stuff. It never really dries, but stays tacky. There's some discussion about it around hyar, just do a search under "linseed oil" and it'll bring it up, I believe.

i know framesaver vs. hdmp isn't going to break the bank, but I just believe in getting good value. eventually, the $ and cents start adding up to a lot. And it's nice to have enough to use elsewhere as well.
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Old 01-30-06, 05:13 PM   #9
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did the quick release skewers and springs too.. sorry for the information flooding.. I will go away and be silent now.. good luck finding the stuff..
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Old 01-30-06, 05:19 PM   #10
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I found HDMP at the Marine Supply place, in a very small town in Michigan's thumb, to boot. It wouldn't surprise me if the same stuff comes under diff brand names. Frame Saver itself runs $15 a can, not too expensive actually if you can use it for four frames. Also, frame saver comes with good instructions, so it's worth buying the bike-specific-packaged can if you've not rustproofed a frame before.
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Old 01-30-06, 06:24 PM   #11
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Linseed oil trivia. The inside core of heavy steel cables are often made of .... HEMP (or other natural fiber)! To keep the steel cable strands from rusting, greases and oils are soaked into the hemp. Over time the grease or oil dries and looses its protective properties. So the standard process is to put a casing over the cable and inject hi-pressure linseed oil into the cable all the way down to the fiber core. Many of your older cable suspended bridges have been will be treated this way.

end trivia

btw: there is an advanced auto zone neaar me, what does the packaging look like. I can check the next time I am there
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Old 01-30-06, 08:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comradehoser
.....as for the linseed oil--some folks use boiled linseed oil (I think it's the boiled).....
Yes, it's the boiled linseed oil.

More trivia: Linseed oil is sqeezed from flax seeds. Boiled linseed oil isn't actually boiled. Boiling some vegetable oils causes changes in their drying characteristics. The same effect is achieved with liseed oil by adding solvents. Boiled linseed oil is called boiled because the added solvents cause it to act like a boiled oil (i.e., it goes dries more quickly).
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Old 01-30-06, 08:23 PM   #13
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More Linseed Oil trivia:

A rag soaked with linseed oil, left alone especially in a garbage can can actually catch fire on its own. spontanious combustion so if you use the stuff, be careful that you do not leave it on a wicking medium. A can of linseed oil left unattended will not combust, it does not vaporize the same way.

Enough???
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Old 01-30-06, 10:00 PM   #14
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like this I think:



unfortunately, I called the advance auto parts in hyattsville. They didn't know anything about it.
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Old 01-31-06, 05:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timcupery
I found HDMP at the Marine Supply place, in a very small town in Michigan's thumb, to boot. It wouldn't surprise me if the same stuff comes under diff brand names. Frame Saver itself runs $15 a can, not too expensive actually if you can use it for four frames. Also, frame saver comes with good instructions, so it's worth buying the bike-specific-packaged can if you've not rustproofed a frame before.
$11.88 at Branford Bike

Bob
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Old 01-31-06, 06:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comradehoser
like this I think:



unfortunately, I called the advance auto parts in hyattsville. They didn't know anything about it.
That's it exactly. Try a few other Auto parts shops or chains. It's out there.
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Old 01-31-06, 07:38 PM   #17
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I won't claim to know what I'm doing, but here goes. I found a Penzoil product at the local building supply super store (Menards) that claims to be a rust preventitive for marine engine parts. The label says it leaves a thin layer of oil on the surface.

So, go to your local super cheap discount home building products store and find the automotive department. Look for something that is advertised for use as rustproofing on marine engine parts.

Edit: I paid $3 for a can of the equivalent Penzoil product at Menards. No, it isn't worth paying 4x for the "bike specific pruduct". Pisses me off royally that people repackage the same product for different market segmets at way different prices. %$#@ "Framesaver".

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Old 02-01-06, 12:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comradehoser
like this I think:



unfortunately, I called the advance auto parts in hyattsville. They didn't know anything about it.
I found this out today. Don't even look for this stuff at the national chains. Amsoil only works with "independent distributors". Which is cool, just don't plan on finding it at Pep Boys or Home Depot.
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Old 02-01-06, 08:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsexson
I found this out today. Don't even look for this stuff at the national chains. Amsoil only works with "independent distributors". Which is cool, just don't plan on finding it at Pep Boys or Home Depot.
Yeah, back when I used to mess around with cars more I recall some people having a sort of religious fervor with regards to Amsoil products. Presumably it is sold to independent retailers in a way not unlike Amway stuff.... That always made me leery.
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Old 02-01-06, 10:23 AM   #20
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yup the "Am" in Amway and Amsoil plus their weird online ordering (have to go through the local indep. distrib.) makes me think maybe they are related. lame.
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Old 02-01-06, 04:05 PM   #21
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Obvious solution, hunt up a couple of local, non-chain auto parts stores. Come to think of it, I got mine at a local shop, not the Advanced Auto Parts store as I reported above.

As to the Amway-type connection, I don't think so. Amsoil stuff is sold in retail shops and the cost is very reasonable. Neither is true of Amway.
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Old 02-01-06, 06:37 PM   #22
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the company was founded by Lt. Col. A.J. "Al" Amatuzio so my guess is would be that the company name was derived from the phrase "Am's Oil".. if you notice on the can the AMS is in red and the OIL is in blue... just a guess..
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Old 03-10-06, 11:43 AM   #23
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I found another possible framesaver substitute. I bought a can of Gunk/Liquid Wrench Industrial Chain Lube at Home Depot last night to prep my new LHT frame. It sounds like it is supposed to do the same thing as Boeshield T-9 and Amsoil HDMP. I sprayed it in last night and I am waiting for it to "set up". It cost about 3 bucks for a 15 ounce spray can.
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Old 03-10-06, 01:30 PM   #24
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If you've just spent $1,000., $1,500 or $2,000 on a steel-framed bike and are worried about $15 on some Boeshield T-9 or other framesaver then maybe you should step back and reconsider your priorities.

What about spraying in some metal primer as an inexpensive option?

And just to throw an totally different alternative in to the ring, has anyone tried or even heard of Zinga? See: http://www.zingacanada.com/ (There's probably a US distributer as well).

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Old 03-10-06, 03:05 PM   #25
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Dinitrol ML is used during car restoration as a corrosion preventive/rust killer in cavities. It's cheap at about $5 a 500ml can.

http://eftec-aftermarket.de/index.ph...subcatid=8&L=1
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