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Old 02-24-06, 11:08 PM   #1
BillBilliken7ck
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Shifters vs Deraileurs, which is more important?

I'm looking at a bike at a LBS that has Ultegra deraileurs, but 105 shifters. I'm wondering what is considered to be more important, and a bigger determinant in the quality of the system, the deraileur or the hand shifters?
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Old 02-24-06, 11:18 PM   #2
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Personally...the shifters.

I believe the reason that most bike have a "higher" quality rear deraileur may be because they can add customer perceived Value at a lower component cost.

Example: 105 levers w/Ultegra Derail much cheaper than Ultegra Levers w/105 Derail.

Most people will look at it the other way, but once you wear out a pair of shifters you'll understand what I'm saying. The shifters determine the cable/derail travel thus shift quality.

My $0.02
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Old 02-25-06, 01:43 AM   #3
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I agree. I am putting together a Deore RD and Dura-Ace shifters, I wouldn't do it the other way around The MTB RD gives me a choice of any cassette all the way up to 34t. You can't do that with the so called road RD.

Because I chose a Dura-Ace shifter that can be switched to friction mode or 10s SIS (SL-7800), I can use any cassette type from 7s to 10s, but only with indexing on 10s.
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Old 02-25-06, 04:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Personally...the shifters.

I believe the reason that most bike have a "higher" quality rear deraileur may be because they can add customer perceived Value at a lower component cost.

Example: 105 levers w/Ultegra Derail much cheaper than Ultegra Levers w/105 Derail.

Most people will look at it the other way, but once you wear out a pair of shifters you'll understand what I'm saying. The shifters determine the cable/derail travel thus shift quality.

My $0.02
Ditto.

There's almost no benefit (other than saving a few grams) between and 105 rd and an Ultegra.

I've got Dura-Ace shifters and 105 rd. The DA shifters are better than anything I've used before (older DA, Ultegra and newer *105) Everday, I must stop myself from being so vain and superficial and purchasing a matching DA rd because in reality it won't make a difference at all aside from the bling affect.

*btw, 105's are not bad at all.
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Old 02-25-06, 04:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Personally...the shifters.

I believe the reason that most bike have a "higher" quality rear deraileur may be because they can add customer perceived Value at a lower component cost.

Example: 105 levers w/Ultegra Derail much cheaper than Ultegra Levers w/105 Derail.

Most people will look at it the other way, but once you wear out a pair of shifters you'll understand what I'm saying. The shifters determine the cable/derail travel thus shift quality.

My $0.02
I agree with you as far as the wonderful world of Shimano goes. Campy is exactly opposite. Record/Chorus differ only from the lower groups in weight. Record uses carbon levers and some titanium fastners. Chorus uses the carbon levers. The only real difference is the ball bearing between Record/Chorus and lower groups. After a few hundred miles the bronze busing breaks in and is as smooth as the bearing. I own and use both so I know. Brandford Bike has an excellent article on the subject. Up until a few years ago Record used the same gears as Mirage. Now the Record uses some kind of Teflon coating to justify the huge price difference over the more pedestrian Mirage model.

With all that said you would be better off with say a Chorus or Centaur group with Veloce brifters. The extra dough you spend on Record could be better used on lighter wheels. IMO

Tim
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Old 02-25-06, 07:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by cs1
I agree with you as far as the wonderful world of Shimano goes. Campy is exactly opposite.
Yeah, I was just going to point this out. Brifters is one area where Campy's groups don't lose much meaningful quality as you go down the groupline.
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Old 02-25-06, 07:45 AM   #7
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The shifters are the brains and hold all the logic. The derailleur only does what the shifters tell it to do.

Then again the shifters only do what the cyclist tells them to do. Humm and that doesn't necessarily always make the cyclist smarter than the shifter. So my logic is flawed.
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Old 02-25-06, 08:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timcupery
Yeah, I was just going to point this out. Brifters is one area where Campy's groups don't lose much meaningful quality as you go down the groupline.
Your correct. They sure do charge a lot more though for all that Bling. As far as brifters go, Veloce is a best buy in Campy land. Mirage/Xenon have far too much plastic for me. Though internally, Mirage has the same guts as Centaur.

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Old 02-25-06, 09:04 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by cs1
Your correct. They sure do charge a lot more though for all that Bling. As far as brifters go, Veloce is a best buy in Campy land. Mirage/Xenon have far too much plastic for me. Though internally, Mirage has the same guts as Centaur.
'Cept Mirage is 9-speed and Centaur is 10-speed. The plastic levers are more than adequate for their function, in my experience. But this thread is about Shimano, and I agree that between the derailleurs and the levers, more money should be put into the levers.
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Old 02-25-06, 09:09 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BillBilliken7ck
I'm looking at a bike at a LBS that has Ultegra deraileurs, but 105 shifters. I'm wondering what is considered to be more important, and a bigger determinant in the quality of the system, the deraileur or the hand shifters?
Deraileurs.
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Old 02-25-06, 03:42 PM   #11
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I'm going to throw my vote firmly on the side of the shifters.

The RD, whether it be Dura Ace or Sora or anything inbetween is controlled by the shifters and the cable quality/installation. As long as the RD's are within tolerance (and new they all are) the brifters will give you the best "feel".
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Old 02-25-06, 04:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by shokhead
Deraileurs.
Huh? If you're going to argue for something the opposite of what everyone else has said, at least you might give a reason...
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Old 02-25-06, 05:07 PM   #13
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The rear derailleur is almost always the first upgrade; and the most meaningless, especially between 105 & Ultegra.
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Old 02-25-06, 05:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timcupery
Huh? If you're going to argue for something the opposite of what everyone else has said, at least you might give a reason...
+1 At least the two Tim's agree on somehting.

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Old 02-25-06, 06:13 PM   #15
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Huh? If you're going to argue for something the opposite of what everyone else has said, at least you might give a reason...
I'm not arguing. I gave my answer.
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Old 02-26-06, 09:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBilliken7ck
I'm looking at a bike at a LBS that has Ultegra deraileurs, but 105 shifters. I'm wondering what is considered to be more important, and a bigger determinant in the quality of the system, the deraileur or the hand shifters?
For riding or for selling?

If I'm trying to sell the bike, I'd upgrade the rear derailleur because that's the first component that most buyers look at.

If I'm riding the bike I'd probably prefer the upgraded shifters because that's where the nice crisp shift stops come from.

If it's my own bike, it'll have matching parts.
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Old 02-26-06, 11:30 AM   #17
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im gonna go with shifters for all the reasons listed above
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Old 02-26-06, 11:32 AM   #18
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Shifters, they cost more. The indexing is in the shifters, the derailleurs, 7,8,and 9-speed Shimano derailleurs are cross-compatible and derailleur upgrades are often not needed when upgrading other components.

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Old 02-26-06, 12:14 PM   #19
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I'm not arguing. I gave my answer.
Sorry; by "arguing for" I simply meant you were giving an answer, that is, putting in a vote or contention for one option of two options. So I mean that you were "arguing" in the sense that academics might use the word, I guess.

That clarified, my question (and cs1's) stands: given that you gave a different answer than everyone else here, it might be worth saying why you think what you do. Otherwise, there's really no point to your post.
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Old 02-26-06, 01:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by timcupery
Sorry; by "arguing for" I simply meant you were giving an answer, that is, putting in a vote or contention for one option of two options. So I mean that you were "arguing" in the sense that academics might use the word, I guess.

That clarified, my question (and cs1's) stands: given that you gave a different answer than everyone else here, it might be worth saying why you think what you do. Otherwise, there's really no point to your post.
He's just trolling. Ignore him.

Also voting in favor of the shifters, derailleurs work pretty well at most levels (apart from the bargin-bucket level).
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Old 02-26-06, 01:11 PM   #21
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Trolling is about as lame a word as dropped.
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Old 02-26-06, 01:24 PM   #22
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Trolling is about as lame a word as dropped.
Ah, that's classic.
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Old 02-26-06, 03:47 PM   #23
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Trolling is about as lame a word as dropped.
How so, troll?
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Old 02-26-06, 06:23 PM   #24
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How so, troll?
Are you lost?
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Old 02-26-06, 08:13 PM   #25
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Are you lost?
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