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Old 02-26-06, 12:51 PM   #1
Lecterman
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Sach Aris Freewheels any good?

I am about to have the frame powdercoated on my Centurion Ironman and when I build back up I am pondering a move to an 8 speed freewheel (12-28) from my 7 speed (14-28). I found a place that has a Sach Aris 8 Speed 12-28 for $44.99. I am not specifically familiar with this brand, but figured some of you might be. I will be using it with a Shimano 600 Derailluer and a Shimano 600 hub.
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Old 02-26-06, 01:39 PM   #2
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Where can you get the Sachs? I just used my last Sachs 6 spd (I had stockpiled a few about 8 years ago) and they are very good freewheels. Much better than the Suntour I just put on. If the Aris is the same as my 6 spd, its a great freewheel.
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Old 02-26-06, 02:07 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by San Rensho
Where can you get the Sachs? I just used my last Sachs 6 spd (I had stockpiled a few about 8 years ago) and they are very good freewheels. Much better than the Suntour I just put on. If the Aris is the same as my 6 spd, its a great freewheel.
http://www.bikepro.com/ad_copy/free_cass.html

As always, Google is your friend ;-)
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Old 02-26-06, 02:16 PM   #4
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As in good in quality/wear as any other freewheels.
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Old 02-26-06, 02:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by lecterman
I am about to have the frame powdercoated on my Centurion Ironman and when I build back up I am pondering a move to an 8 speed freewheel (12-28) from my 7 speed (14-28). I found a place that has a Sach Aris 8 Speed 12-28 for $44.99. I am not specifically familiar with this brand, but figured some of you might be. I will be using it with a Shimano 600 Derailluer and a Shimano 600 hub.
They're not nearly as good as Shimano, but Shimano doesn't do an 8-speed freewheel...for good reason!

8-speed freewheels require extra spacers to build out the axle on the right side for clearance. When used with a typical threaded-axle hub like yours, the result is a very high axle failure rate. That's why 8-speed freewheels have gone nearly extinct.

If you're a very light, gentle rider this might work for you, but if no, it is liable to lead to axle bendage/breakage.

Sheldon "K7" Brown
Code:
+----------------------------------------+
|  The race is not always to the swift,  |
|  nor the battle to the strong          |
|  -but that's the way to bet.           |
|                       --Damon Runyon   |
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Old 02-26-06, 02:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by cascade168
http://www.bikepro.com/ad_copy/free_cass.html

As always, Google is your friend ;-)
Messy birdcoops, Cascade. Can't believe I spent almost $60 on the Suntour when there are still Sachs out there. Live and learn.
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Old 02-26-06, 02:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
They're not nearly as good as Shimano, but Shimano doesn't do an 8-speed freewheel...for good reason!

8-speed freewheels require extra spacers to build out the axle on the right side for clearance. When used with a typical threaded-axle hub like yours, the result is a very high axle failure rate. That's why 8-speed freewheels have gone nearly extinct.

If you're a very light, gentle rider this might work for you, but if no, it is liable to lead to axle bendage/breakage.

Sheldon "K7" Brown
Code:
+----------------------------------------+
|  The race is not always to the swift,  |
|  nor the battle to the strong          |
|  -but that's the way to bet.           |
|                       --Damon Runyon   |
+----------------------------------------+

I've got the Sachs 8 speed freewheel hub and freewheel and as noted you will either bend or break the axle due to the spacing. Mine is bent but I can live with it, haven't had an opportunity to look for the replacement axle, probably won't be able to find one.

I'm using it with a Suntour Superbe Pro 7/8 speed downtube shifters.
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Old 02-26-06, 04:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade168
http://www.bikepro.com/ad_copy/free_cass.html

As always, Google is your friend ;-)
Not always. :-(

That's a ghost Website, Bikepro has been out of business since sometime in the last milennium, but the Website is still up for some bizarre reason.

Anyway, Shimano freewheels are WAY better than Sachs/Sram, and a helluvalot cheaper.

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|                        --George Bernard Shaw  |
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Old 02-26-06, 06:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
Not always. :-(

That's a ghost Website, Bikepro has been out of business since sometime in the last milennium, but the Website is still up for some bizarre reason.

Anyway, Shimano freewheels are WAY better than Sachs/Sram, and a helluvalot cheaper.

Sheldon "Old Websites Never Die..." Brown
Code:
+-----------------------------------------------+
|  A government that robs Peter to pay Paul     |
|  can always depend upon the support of Paul.  |
|                        --George Bernard Shaw  |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Go figure. I gotta find their hosting service ;-)

I should know by now. Not long ago I saw that Park had discontinued their CLG-2 chainline gauge, and I wanted one. So, I went searching (via Google) and found dozens of stores and Ebay sites listing them. After ordering from two different sites and being told "out of stock" I started calling stores and asking them to actually physically check stock for the item. Four stores told me "yes, we show that in stock" and when they actually checked they said they'd "have it in a couple of days". I was ready to give up and the fifth store, Frankford Bike, had the item in hand. So, the moral of the story is that nothing is certain until it's a done deal (well, in most cases). Arrrrgh! I also learned that there are at least a few stores that are apparently just middle men for QBP (yes, QBP still had the CLG-2 listed, thus the "have it in a couple of days" responses).

So, I guess now I have to say "Google is - in most cases - your friend". Everything has to have a disclaimer these days ;-(
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Old 02-26-06, 06:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cascade168
I also learned that there are at least a few stores that are apparently just middle men for QBP (yes, QBP still had the CLG-2 listed, thus the "have it in a couple of days" responses).

So, I guess now I have to say "Google is - in most cases - your friend". Everything has to have a disclaimer these days ;-(
We're among the shops that use SmartEtailing's link to the Quality Bicyle Products special order catalogue, we've been very happy with the results. It enables customers to place special orders for itty bitty parts online, things that wouldn't be worth my time and trouble to specifically list on our main Website. Often orders placed through that system are actually filled directly from our stock, 'cause we stock lotsa stuff that I haven't found time to list on the Website.

QBP has a great inventory system, and the special order catalogue is set up to list only items that QBP actually has in stock. If you fond the CLG-2 listed but didn't get it, you must have only just missed out...I'm sure QBP had it in stock when you placed your order. Unfortunately, orders on this system don't get transmitted in real time to QBP. The way the software is set up, the order is transmitted to the retailer, who will then include the item on their next regular order to QBP.

We order at least once a week, generally on Tuesday, get the shipment on Thursday. Sometimes we'll do an additional order in between, but usually not because of shipping costs. (Our weekly order is generally large enough to get us free shipping. Smaller orders would cost extra.)

A smaller shop might take longer, QBP does have a minimum order requirement.

Sheldon "Big QBP Fan" Brown
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|    I millihelen = the amount of           |
|    beauty required to launch one ship.    |
|                      --Peter Shickele     |
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Old 02-26-06, 07:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
We're among the shops that use SmartEtailing's link to the Quality Bicyle Products special order catalogue, we've been very happy with the results. It enables customers to place special orders for itty bitty parts online, things that wouldn't be worth my time and trouble to specifically list on our main Website. Often orders placed through that system are actually filled directly from our stock, 'cause we stock lotsa stuff that I haven't found time to list on the Website.

QBP has a great inventory system, and the special order catalogue is set up to list only items that QBP actually has in stock. If you fond the CLG-2 listed but didn't get it, you must have only just missed out...I'm sure QBP had it in stock when you placed your order. Unfortunately, orders on this system don't get transmitted in real time to QBP. The way the software is set up, the order is transmitted to the retailer, who will then include the item on their next regular order to QBP.

We order at least once a week, generally on Tuesday, get the shipment on Thursday. Sometimes we'll do an additional order in between, but usually not because of shipping costs. (Our weekly order is generally large enough to get us free shipping. Smaller orders would cost extra.)

A smaller shop might take longer, QBP does have a minimum order requirement.

Sheldon "Big QBP Fan" Brown
Code:
+-------------------------------------------+
|    I millihelen = the amount of           |
|    beauty required to launch one ship.    |
|                      --Peter Shickele     |
+-------------------------------------------+

I have no problem with shops linking to QBP as Harris does. But, I think it's just a bit disingenuous if it's not stated as such. It's very clear on the Harris site that you are ordering via QBP. Both of the shops that told me that it was "out of stock" took my money and subsequently informed me that the item was discontinued (which I already knew). I was under the impression that they actually had the item in their stock. So, then I had to request refunds. Both shops asked me to take a store credit! That's really annoying. In the calls to subsequent shops I eventually asked a couple of them if they were assuming "in stock" based on what QBP showed in their system and one store hemmed and hawed and one store admitted that their store's "stock" was actually QBP stock. That's when it became apparent what was going on. I don't doubt for a minute that the timing between when I saw the item as listed as "discontinued" on the Park site, when I placed my orders, and when QBP took the item off of their site was a bad case for me, and I understand that it happens.

There is a big difference between me saying I have almost any tool you need in my stock and me actually using Sears as my warehouse. If I say I can get you any tool you want and my supplier is Sears then that's a different story. One is a lie and the other is not. There's really no gray area.

Harris and Bethel Cycle are two shops that come to mind that are very clear about using QBP for ordering items. I totally respect that. Most shops use QBP and when you are told by the shop that "we'll have the parts in a couple of days" it's almost certain where they are coming from. What I feel is, at best, ethically questionable, is to show that your store has an item in stock when, if fact, it does not. I'm a little surprised that QBP does not require internet dealers to state somewhere on theirs sites that they are QBP retailers. Maybe I am just naive.

Do you see where I'm coming from?
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Old 02-26-06, 07:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cascade168
I have no problem with shops linking to QBP as Harris does. But, I think it's just a bit disingenuous if it's not stated as such. It's very clear on the Harris site that you are ordering via QBP. Both of the shops that told me that it was "out of stock" took my money and subsequently informed me that the item was discontinued (which I already knew). I was under the impression that they actually had the item in their stock. So, then I had to request refunds. Both shops asked me to take a store credit! That's really annoying.
That's putting it mildly!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade168
There is a big difference between me saying I have almost any tool you need in my stock and me actually using Sears as my warehouse. If I say I can get you any tool you want and my supplier is Sears then that's a different story. One is a lie and the other is not. There's really no gray area.

Harris and Bethel Cycle are two shops that come to mind that are very clear about using QBP for ordering items. I totally respect that. Most shops use QBP and when you are told by the shop that "we'll have the parts in a couple of days" it's almost certain where they are coming from. What I feel is, at best, ethically questionable, is to show that your store has an item in stock when, if fact, it does not.
No argument here!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade168
I'm a little surprised that QBP does not require internet dealers to state somewhere on theirs sites that they are QBP retailers. Maybe I am just naive.

Do you see where I'm coming from?
QBP advertises in trade magazines to its customers, who are bike shops. They do not deal with retail customers, and don't seem to have any interest in advertising to them...except for their Surly brand, which has a whole separate Website.

I've visited QBP and have dealt with them for many years. Their facility is mind-bogglingly large and well organized, with lots of very good automation and a large cadre of employees who seem to be delighted to work there. They are a very progressive company with a rock solid commitment to quality and customer service, and I've always been proud to be associated with them.

I too am mystified at the fact that many of the shops who use the SmartEtailing link to their catalogue are shy about revealing who is behind it. Then again, my ideas about marketing have never been what you'd call "mainstream..."

Sheldon "Quality=Quality" Brown
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|  Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die  |
|  even the undertaker will be sorry.     --Mark Twain  |
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Old 02-26-06, 07:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
That's putting it mildly!




No argument here!




QBP advertises in trade magazines to its customers, who are bike shops. They do not deal with retail customers, and don't seem to have any interest in advertising to them...except for their Surly brand, which has a whole separate Website.

I've visited QBP and have dealt with them for many years. Their facility is mind-bogglingly large and well organized, with lots of very good automation and a large cadre of employees who seem to be delighted to work there. They are a very progressive company with a rock solid commitment to quality and customer service, and I've always been proud to be associated with them.

I too am mystified at the fact that many of the shops who use the SmartEtailing link to their catalogue are shy about revealing who is behind it. Then again, my ideas about marketing have never been what you'd call "mainstream..."

Sheldon "Quality=Quality" Brown
Code:
+-------------------------------------------------------+
|  Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die  |
|  even the undertaker will be sorry.     --Mark Twain  |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

Thanks for your time and your thoughtful answers. Just to be clear, I have no problem with QPB and I am happy that they are around to help us all get our parts. Your comment about how shops market their link answers my question about what is going on. My guess is that they are worried that their images may be measured in millihelens instead of full helens ;-)

Cheers,
Bill
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Old 02-26-06, 09:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
They're not nearly as good as Shimano, but Shimano doesn't do an 8-speed freewheel...for good reason!

8-speed freewheels require extra spacers to build out the axle on the right side for clearance. When used with a typical threaded-axle hub like yours, the result is a very high axle failure rate. That's why 8-speed freewheels have gone nearly extinct.

If you're a very light, gentle rider this might work for you, but if no, it is liable to lead to axle bendage/breakage.

Sheldon "K7" Brown
Wow, a response from the master.

Based on your feedback I think I will just put a new 7 speed Shimano 12-28 (if there is one). Since I am changing my small ring from a 42 to a 39 I think I will get all the gear range I will need.
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