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  1. #1
    whzzzzzzzzz-bam! LSPR_MTU's Avatar
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    Please help me remove my casett!

    Need Help!

    I have the zinn manual, but still can't figure out how to get this cassett off. I don't have pin spanners, or many other bike-specific tools, but I'm trying to get this hub apart so I can clean and relubricate it (sounds filthy inside). Is there any way to do this without going out and getting tools?

    I have an old chain and pliers that I figure I can use as a chain whip, as well as needlenose pliers that I think will work as a pin spanner, but I don't even know which direction to turn which stuff. It looks like I need to turn the makeshift pin spanner clockwise, but I'm not sure. What do I do???




    Thanks
    Last edited by LSPR_MTU; 04-11-06 at 04:59 PM.

  2. #2
    By-Tor...or the Snow Dog? hi565's Avatar
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    you need a specific tool.

    So the answer is no.


    Unless there is some way of bypassing that.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

  3. #3
    By-Tor...or the Snow Dog? hi565's Avatar
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    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/freewheel.html

    Scroll down, its the second item down. I am pretty sure thats what you need for that casette...



    Edit: That is what you need.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

  4. #4
    By-Tor...or the Snow Dog? hi565's Avatar
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    and one more post


    http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=48

    That is the link to the park tool website on how to get off a casette. Its very very easy, but you do need that freewheel tool.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

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    Point of order: that's a multispeed freewheel, not a casette. Not trying to nitpick, just want to make sure you get the right tool, which is in fact the FR-2 as posted above. Don't be surprised if it takes some pretty righteous torque to get it off off there, and it may make an unsettling noise as it breaks loose. You will need a breaker bar or a big ol' wrench, don't bother if all you have is a set of channel lock pliers.

    Also, you can't really take apart the freewheel to service it. The teeth look fine, and don't be alarmed if it sounds like there is something rattling around inside.

  6. #6
    whzzzzzzzzz-bam! LSPR_MTU's Avatar
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    it doesn't sound like there is anything rattling around, it sounds like there is sand/dirt that is resisting rotation. I don't imagine that's a good thing, but I think it's servicable. I found the bike in the trash and am basically tearing it down to bits and rebuilding it. I'd like to save as many parts as possible.

    I'll give up and just get that tool. I can at least work on the front hub for now, while the frame isbeing painted.

    By the way, the decale on the bike said Raleigh R100th. What the heck model is that, I've never heard of it?

  7. #7
    whzzzzzzzzz-bam! LSPR_MTU's Avatar
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    So for the FR-2, I basically reinstall the skewer over top of this tool, to keep it from slipping, and then give it hell?

  8. #8
    whzzzzzzzzz-bam! LSPR_MTU's Avatar
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    Also, I suppose I should get a real chainwhip too, while I'm at it?

  9. #9
    jur
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    You can flush it to a good extent: Dribble some solvent like kerosene into the crack at the edge of the recess while spinning the freewheel. The solvent will come out the other side. Continue doing this until it sounds clean. The allow the thing to dry inside (this wil take long unless you take a very volatile solvent and flush it with that). When dry, dribble in some heavy oil into the same crack while spinning.
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    You can indeed solvent bath the freewheel, I'm just saying don't try to take it apart. Also, are you sure the grit is in the freewheel and not the actual bearings that the axle runs on? Turn the axle by hand once the freewheel is off and see how it feels and sounds.

    Reinstalling the skewer is a good safety measure, but once it breaks free you can take the skewer and driver out and just use the tool to spin it off by hand.

    You don't need a chain whip to put it back on, you can tighten it down with the FR-2. Also, pedaling tightens it; it's not going anywhere.

  11. #11
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    I had a fairly cheap steel bench vise...weighed maybe 10 lb. I got what seemed like an incredibly lightweight cassette tool to remove the stuck freewheel on my beater mtn bike. The tool is a splined cyclinder with tube walls only a few millimeters thick and it weighs only a few grams. I inserted it in the freewheel slot, then clamped the end of it in the vise, and turned the bike wheel. The incredibly lightweight, thin metal cassette tool (and I) bent the 2 inch thick steel jaws of my vise out of alignment, turning it to junk.


    Plan B. I placed a 12" adjustable spanner (crescent wrench) on the hex end of the freewheel tool, braced the tire on the floor, protected my eyes, and whacked the spanner handle repeatedly with a hammer. That worked.

  12. #12
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSPR_MTU
    So for the FR-2, I basically reinstall the skewer over top of this tool, to keep it from slipping, and then give it hell?
    Yup... and it will take the same amount of force to get it off as put it on... your legs.

    I have two bikes, one with freewheel and one with cassette.

    Usually with these I reinstall the skewer, without the springs, and then lock the wheel tool side down into a big old vice and then use my body to work the wheel in the right direction. (opposite of drive).

    However, a real long crescent wrench can do it. It is going to take a lot of torque on this thing. So be prepared.

  13. #13
    genec genec's Avatar
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    A good way to clean/lubricate a freewheel is to use a spray like TriFlow and spray around the gap between the inner spinning part and the body with the cogs on it. Work the spinning part around and keep spraying. Put a rag under the freewheel and continue spinning and spraying until the TriFlow starts to come out the threaded side. This will carry any dust/sand out and leave lubrication in the freewheel. Allow it to drain for a while on the rag after you have finished... the excess will flow out.

  14. #14
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSPR_MTU
    So for the FR-2, I basically reinstall the skewer over top of this tool, to keep it from slipping, and then give it hell?
    I put the tool facing up in a bench vise, sit the wheel freewheel down on the tool, and turn the wheel counter clockwise to remove freewheels. Works great and you get lots of torque using the wheel.

    Once it is off, you can use your favorite brand of penetrating/lubricating oil to flush the internals out from the rear. Just flush liberaly, spin, and repeat.

    Don't take the freewheel itself apart unless you have lots of spare time on your hands......
    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, itís the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

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    Make absolutely certain that the freewheel tool is secured in place. You will need to re-assemble the hub before attempting to remove the freewheel. Use the washer and nut and snug it down, as it is being threaded off you'll have to gradually loosen off the nut. If you do not secure the tool it will slip and shear off the prongs, you will destroy it and fail in your attempt at removing the freewheel.

  16. #16
    whzzzzzzzzz-bam! LSPR_MTU's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the advice. I went ahead and ordered the freewheel tool and a chain whip from nashbar (along with a few other goodies). I don't plan on taking the freewheel apart unless it still sounds dirty, even after I clean everything else. This isn't my main bike, it's just a project, so I don't mind spending the time to take everything apart and clean it right - no rush.

    Question - are you sure it's ok to use the wheel as a lever to unscrew the freewheel? The Zinn manual specifically said not to do this, but to instead use a chain whip.

  17. #17
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSPR_MTU
    Question - are you sure it's ok to use the wheel as a lever to unscrew the freewheel? The Zinn manual specifically said not to do this, but to instead use a chain whip.
    Is that the manual for this specific freewheel? If not, I would go with whatever advice you find on Sheldonbrown.com

  18. #18
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSPR_MTU
    Thanks for all the advice. I went ahead and ordered the freewheel tool and a chain whip from nashbar (along with a few other goodies). I don't plan on taking the freewheel apart unless it still sounds dirty, even after I clean everything else. This isn't my main bike, it's just a project, so I don't mind spending the time to take everything apart and clean it right - no rush.

    Question - are you sure it's ok to use the wheel as a lever to unscrew the freewheel? The Zinn manual specifically said not to do this, but to instead use a chain whip.
    Have done this many times on different bikes... it was the torque of the rider against the freewheel AND wheel that got it tight in the first place... so I really doubt that any harm can come from using the wheel in the opposing direction to remove the freewheel.

    The biggest problem however can come from you putting yourself against the wheel to use it to torque in this manner... you are likely to lose your balance and may fall into something that you did not plan on falling into. Brace well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSPR_MTU
    Thanks for all the advice. I went ahead and ordered the freewheel tool and a chain whip from nashbar (along with a few other goodies). I don't plan on taking the freewheel apart unless it still sounds dirty, even after I clean everything else. This isn't my main bike, it's just a project, so I don't mind spending the time to take everything apart and clean it right - no rush.

    Question - are you sure it's ok to use the wheel as a lever to unscrew the freewheel? The Zinn manual specifically said not to do this, but to instead use a chain whip.
    First part - you don't need a chainwhip. Really. You don't.

    Second part - Unless I'm really missing something here, if you put the freewheel tool in the vice, pop the wheel in, and put the chainwhip on, you are set up to do one of two things: spin the freewheel till you're blue in the face by turning the chain whip counterclockwise, or destructive stress test the freewheel by turning the chain whip clockwise. I'm not quite sure what Zinn is warning you against here as you can't really install or remove a freewheel without touching the rim unless you can clamp the hub itself, but like I said, I could be missing something.

  20. #20
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Chain whips are for cassettes, not freewheels. freewheels screw onto the threaded body of the hub - clockwise to spin on and tighten, counter-clockwise to loosen and spin off.

    All you need is a tool (Suntour 2-prong in your case) and either a wrench for the tool or a bench vice.
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  21. #21
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbossman
    Chain whips are for cassettes, not freewheels. freewheels screw onto the threaded body of the hub - clockwise to spin on and tighten, counter-clockwise to loosen and spin off.

    All you need is a tool (Suntour 2-prong in your case) and either a wrench for the tool or a bench vice.

    What he said. Apparently you are trying to use instructions for a cassette, when in fact you have a freewheel. Cassettes and freewheels are two different things, even though I mixed them up in my earlier post. Freewheels are mainly found on older bikes and they screw onto the hub. Many newer bikes have cassettes that slip on and are held in place by a lock nut.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landgolier
    Point of order: that's a multispeed freewheel, not a casette. Not trying to nitpick, just want to make sure you get the right tool, which is in fact the FR-2 as posted above. Don't be surprised if it takes some pretty righteous torque to get it off off there, and it may make an unsettling noise as it breaks loose. You will need a breaker bar or a big ol' wrench, don't bother if all you have is a set of channel lock pliers.

    Also, you can't really take apart the freewheel to service it. The teeth look fine, and don't be alarmed if it sounds like there is something rattling around inside.
    It looks to me like he's got bigger problems than that because the axle is missing. You need a QR skewer or a axle nut to hold your freewheel remover in place or you'll just ruin your brand new tool.

    that's a 6-speed which tells me that it was made in the late 70's or early 80's so it's been in place for around 25 years. It's not going to come loose without a fight. Since you've obviously never removed one before, I'd suggest taking it to somebody who has experience.

  23. #23
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
    ....that's a 6-speed which tells me that it was made in the late 70's or early 80's so it's been in place for around 25 years. It's not going to come loose without a fight.....
    Not necessarily - I've removed a ton of vintage freewheels, and only one or two were really a b!tch to remove. Most all of them came loose quite readily by putting the tool in a vise and using the wheel for leverage.

    You're right about the 2-pronged Suntour freewheel/freewheel tool though - you can ruin the tool or the freewheel petty easily if pressure isn't applied correctly and evenly.

    The good news is that both can be replaced very cheaply.
    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, itís the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

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  24. #24
    whzzzzzzzzz-bam! LSPR_MTU's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification guys, I guess I got a bit confoozled there. I guess I ordered a chainwhip for no reason. Oh well, maybe I'll need it someday. BTW, The axle isn't missing - I had just removed it before I took the pic.

    While I'm waiting for my freewheel tool to get here, I went ahead and overhauled the front hub. It went pretty well - smooth as butter now. I also tried to clean the wheel up a bit, but I wasn't able to get all the rust off the rim - it's actually pitted in a couple places. It's a bit disappointing, but I'll live. I may tri taking some sandpaper to it, or just keep my eye out for a set of 27" 6-speed wheels in good condition (fat chance).

    So noone's heard of a Raleigh R100th before? I don't expect it was every a high-end model, but I can't seem to find out anything from google searches about it. If I had to guess, I'd say mid-late 80's. Everything on the bike is cup & cone, suntour components, stem shifters, really crappy 2-position brake levers. Even the bottom bracket is weird - the squar taper ends in a bolt, and a nut is actually used to secure the crank. All the other square taper bb's I've seen use a bolt for the crank, screwed into the bb.

  25. #25
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    Retrogrouch- You've probably done a few hundred more of these than me, but I've never needed the axle/skewer to keep things in line, especially using a vise where you can lean down on it. The suntour ones like this are a bit touchier than the splined shimanos, though. But yeah, if the OP knows anyone who knows bikes, he should let someone else look over his shoulder, as you can mess up the tool if it pops out.

    As for the OP, I have seen this model of bike before once or twice, but I volunteer at a bike co-op so I see a lot of old steel. You have to keep in mind that in the 70's and 80's Raleigh USA was just a label under which Asian-made frames were sold. Not knocking it, mind you; I have one that I ride every day, and it's as good of a lugged steel frame as you'll find for south of $250. But anyway, the models aren't worth getting hung up on. The same frame was often sold under a couple of different model names. I have a Marathon, of which I've only seen 4, but it's identical to a bunch of Capri's I've seen. There might have been a component difference, but all of that got chucked a long time ago in favor of a fixed gear setup. The bolt ends on the bottom bracket aren't that weird, most lower end BB's were like this until the late 80's/early 90's when "10 speeds" were declared passe in favor of hybrids. I took one like this off of a pretty nice Nishiki this morning. A new bottom bracket would be the best $30 you could put into this bike beyond the usual recabling and new cones/bearings, and that's something you could do yourself pretty easily. Be sure you get a set of bolts for the BB, as they don't always come with them.

    Also, 95% of the road bikes from this era had those craptacular two position brake levers, some just had brake releases, and some of the brake releases were orange. You can put any modern stuff on there you want if you don't like them, Shimano 600's are pretty cheap and more comfortable.

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