RapidFire front shifter too hard to push
04-26-06, 06:17 PM
#1
Craig A. Lebowitz
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RapidFire front shifter too hard to push
I installed a new RapidFire shimano front triple shifter on an older bike (Nishiki Sport) with a triple shimano GS200 front derailer.
My problem is that the shifter is providing way too much resistance to get into second and third is nearly impossible.
Another symptom: when I downshift from 3rd, it always skips second. (I looked at the high derailer adjustment screw and it is not the problem). There does not seem to be a snag in the cable anywhere Previously the Shimano GS200 shifter (push-push type) worked the front derailer fine.
(1) Is there a difference in leverage between the new RapidFire and the GS200? Compatibility issue?
(2) Should I remove and lube the front derailer hoping that it gives less resistance?
(3) Could it have anything to to with my slightly-too-long cable housing before the first frame stop?
Thanks very much for the help in diagnosing.
(The seven-speed rear shifter I installed works great up and down.)
My problem is that the shifter is providing way too much resistance to get into second and third is nearly impossible.
Another symptom: when I downshift from 3rd, it always skips second. (I looked at the high derailer adjustment screw and it is not the problem). There does not seem to be a snag in the cable anywhere Previously the Shimano GS200 shifter (push-push type) worked the front derailer fine.
(1) Is there a difference in leverage between the new RapidFire and the GS200? Compatibility issue?
(2) Should I remove and lube the front derailer hoping that it gives less resistance?
(3) Could it have anything to to with my slightly-too-long cable housing before the first frame stop?
Thanks very much for the help in diagnosing.
(The seven-speed rear shifter I installed works great up and down.)
04-26-06, 06:31 PM
#2
Jet Jockey
Provided that the spacing between the chainrings is standard, shouldn't be a compatibility issue. A possibility though is that if that is a "road" derailleur, the amount of cable pull required could be different from a "mountain" shifter. At least according to Shimano. They're compatibility charts are largely built around selling more stuff. I didn't see that shifter on the chart (old?), and I don't know what kind of FD you have.
Sounds like your cable tension is set up wrong.
Another possibility is that when you re-cabled, the routing was somehow wrong, affecting the geometry of the pull. I'm tempted to go with cable tension...and that goes to the initial setup at step one. Which leads to the next point.
Go to the Park Tool website and check the section on front derailleur adjustment. Do the steps IN ORDER. That's very important...I screwed that up once before.
After that, if the issue isn't solved, a few more details may be helpful.
Sounds like your cable tension is set up wrong.
Another possibility is that when you re-cabled, the routing was somehow wrong, affecting the geometry of the pull. I'm tempted to go with cable tension...and that goes to the initial setup at step one. Which leads to the next point.
Go to the Park Tool website and check the section on front derailleur adjustment. Do the steps IN ORDER. That's very important...I screwed that up once before.
After that, if the issue isn't solved, a few more details may be helpful.
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Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
04-26-06, 06:45 PM
#3
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I hated my front Rapid Fire shifter so much I frankenbiked my MTB with a twist front, trigger rear.
04-26-06, 06:51 PM
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Craig A. Lebowitz
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Thanks for your quick reply. I'm fairly certain this is a mtn FD.
The routing is the same as before, one brazed on stop in the front and then threaded through the non-drivetrain side of the plastic guide under the BB. The cable makes a straight shot from the plastic guide to the bolt on the FD. I'm fairly certain it's right, my only worry was about the cable being too long but I don't think it would make that much difference (barely able to get into second and third feels like I'm about the break the shifter). If I move the derailer by hand it goes into third no prob (not the adjustment)
The tension seems good, just barely not slack when in first.
Since the previous shifter was GS200, matching the GS200 FD, I am beginning to think there may be a compatibility issue (my local wrench told me there wouldn't be... i may take it to him if all else fails)
As you suggested, I will go through the entire installation instructions for the FD tomorrow.
Thanks again.
Tension:
The routing is the same as before, one brazed on stop in the front and then threaded through the non-drivetrain side of the plastic guide under the BB. The cable makes a straight shot from the plastic guide to the bolt on the FD. I'm fairly certain it's right, my only worry was about the cable being too long but I don't think it would make that much difference (barely able to get into second and third feels like I'm about the break the shifter). If I move the derailer by hand it goes into third no prob (not the adjustment)
The tension seems good, just barely not slack when in first.
Since the previous shifter was GS200, matching the GS200 FD, I am beginning to think there may be a compatibility issue (my local wrench told me there wouldn't be... i may take it to him if all else fails)
As you suggested, I will go through the entire installation instructions for the FD tomorrow.
Thanks again.
Tension:
Originally Posted by banzai_f16
Provided that the spacing between the chainrings is standard, shouldn't be a compatibility issue. A possibility though is that if that is a "road" derailleur, the amount of cable pull required could be different from a "mountain" shifter. At least according to Shimano. They're compatibility charts are largely built around selling more stuff. I didn't see that shifter on the chart (old?), and I don't know what kind of FD you have.
Sounds like your cable tension is set up wrong.
Another possibility is that when you re-cabled, the routing was somehow wrong, affecting the geometry of the pull. I'm tempted to go with cable tension...and that goes to the initial setup at step one. Which leads to the next point.
Go to the Park Tool website and check the section on front derailleur adjustment. Do the steps IN ORDER. That's very important...I screwed that up once before.
After that, if the issue isn't solved, a few more details may be helpful.
Sounds like your cable tension is set up wrong.
Another possibility is that when you re-cabled, the routing was somehow wrong, affecting the geometry of the pull. I'm tempted to go with cable tension...and that goes to the initial setup at step one. Which leads to the next point.
Go to the Park Tool website and check the section on front derailleur adjustment. Do the steps IN ORDER. That's very important...I screwed that up once before.
After that, if the issue isn't solved, a few more details may be helpful.
04-27-06, 08:36 AM
#5
Craig A. Lebowitz
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I admit defeat, I took it to my LBS and the mechanic there said that "it was installed wrong" and readjusted the position of the derailer (I hadn't moved it from the last working shifters) and it works now.
The worst thing is that he couldn't describe what was wrong, so I learned nothing from my $20.
The worst thing is that he couldn't describe what was wrong, so I learned nothing from my $20.
04-27-06, 02:48 PM
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Did you replace twist shifters with trigger shifters? If you did, that could explain the problem with installing the trigger shifters. Twist shifters are more like friction shifters, and can hide a slightly misaligned front derailluier. A trigger shifter is indexed, and the the front deraulluier needs to dead on correct.
04-27-06, 02:58 PM
#7
Craig A. Lebowitz
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I replaced a pretty bad unsealed Shimano GS200 shifter. It was not a trigger but a push-push type of shifter.
I think what happened was that the old shifter was able to provide enough leverage to get into the third chainring, but that the derailer was already starting somewhat far out.
I notice that after my LBS mechanic worked on it, the low adjustment is considerably lower. He also moved the derailer a bit so I think it's just working on the "lower end" of its spring, thus considerably less tension required. I didn't realize that I would have to reposition the derailer itself if I just changed the shifter.
Does this make sense?
I think what happened was that the old shifter was able to provide enough leverage to get into the third chainring, but that the derailer was already starting somewhat far out.
I notice that after my LBS mechanic worked on it, the low adjustment is considerably lower. He also moved the derailer a bit so I think it's just working on the "lower end" of its spring, thus considerably less tension required. I didn't realize that I would have to reposition the derailer itself if I just changed the shifter.
Does this make sense?
