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Old 04-29-06, 08:22 PM   #1
squeegy200
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Adjusting Front Derailleur - Shoot me now!

I am having a heck of a time getting this new Campagnolo Centaur front derailleur to work properly.

I've just installed an entire gruppo and the only issue I am having is with the front. I cannot seem to get the Front derailleur to properly pick up the chain to the large chain ring.

I've tried moving the cage closer to the chainrings
Moving them away from chainrings (3-7mm above large chainring teeth)
Toeing back of the cage in
Toeing the back of the cage out
More cable tension
Less cable tension

I get the same result. The cage just deflects away and the Campagnolo 10sp narrow chain just skips in this position. It will engage the chainring only 10% of the time.

You can see the cage in the illustration is very close to the large chainring. The narrow chain will not engage the pins and ramp up. It just snakes inbetween the cage and the chainring and will skip in neutral. I can even adjust the cage to the extreme and touch the inside of the chainring and the chain will still refuse to engage the upper chainring. It will deflect the cage rather than engage the pins in the chainring.

What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? Try a different chain?
I've done this many times before. But for some reason, this particular setup has me stumped.

Campagnolo Centaur 10sp
Centaur 10sp Ultra Drive Compact Crank
Centaur Compact Front Derailleur
Centaur 10sp 12-15T Cassette
Centaur rear Derailleur
Centaur 10sp Ergo Levers
Campagnolo Cables
Chorus 10 Ultra Narrow Chain

Everything was new and still in the box. I've gone back to the instructions to see if I've forgotten anything. But I must be missing it.

Any advice is appreciated.


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Old 04-29-06, 09:20 PM   #2
Sheldon Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegy200
I am having a heck of a time getting this new Campagnolo Centaur front derailleur to work properly.

I've just installed an entire gruppo and the only issue I am having is with the front. I cannot seem to get the Front derailleur to properly pick up the chain to the large chain ring.

I've tried moving the cage closer to the chainrings
Moving them away from chainrings
Toeing back of the cage in
Toeing the back of the cage out
More cable tension
Less cable tension

I get the samre result. The cage just gives way and the Campagnolo 10sp narrow chain just skips in this position.

You can see the cage in the illustration is very close to the large chainring. The narrow chain will not ramp up. It just snakes inbetween the cage and the chainring and just skips.

What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions?
The derailer is mounted too high, for starters, but you may be stuck there 'cause of the @#%&! braze on derailer mounting which was not designed with a 50 tooth big ring in mind.

Also, this appears to be a "triple" front derailer, which is not likely to work as well as a "double" unit.

You might do well to go with a "compact specific" front derailer such as the IRD unit.

Sheldon "Braze-on Front Derailers Are The Work Of SATAN!" Brown
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Old 04-29-06, 09:25 PM   #3
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Firstly, that FD looks way too high. The outer portion of the cage, when above the largest chainring, should be a penny's width above it or so. In fact, you can just use a penny to shoot that gap.

How are those limiter screws? The top one may be too tight, or maybe the bottom one was too loose when you first pulled the cable tight, therefore not giving you enough pull when you get to the "top".

Those are my initial thoughts.

I'd also check the Park Tool website, and do the steps IN ORDER.
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Old 04-29-06, 09:26 PM   #4
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And, as Mr. Brown evidentally caught that I did not...it may be a FD for a triple.
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Old 04-29-06, 09:53 PM   #5
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Are you sure the shifter was in its most inboard position when the cable was attached?
Set the derailleur low, about 2mm from the big ring. With the chain on the small chainring detach the cable. Push the small shift lever (tab) all the way down while pulling the free end of the cable. This is to make sure all of the cable is out of the shifter before attaching. Re-attach the cable with all of the slack out of the cable but no extra tension. Adjust the tension only if needed.


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Old 04-29-06, 10:07 PM   #6
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My old Record 8 speed FD only skims just a millimeter above the large ring of my new Centaur compact double and shifts just fine.
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Old 04-29-06, 10:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
The derailer is mounted too high, for starters, but you may be stuck there 'cause of the @#%&! braze on derailer mounting which was not designed with a 50 tooth big ring in mind.

Also, this appears to be a "triple" front derailer, which is not likely to work as well as a "double" unit.

You might do well to go with a "compact specific" front derailer such as the IRD unit.

Sheldon "Braze-on Front Derailers Are The Work Of SATAN!" Brown
Ah! Good eye.

The derailleur IS supposed to be the Centaur Compact specific FD. (That's what I ordered) I've got this exact same setup on another similar bike and have no problems. Upon closer inspection and comparing both bikes, I now see that my other bike--which I also bought the Compact specific FD--has a different shaped cage.

That's the answer! Thanks!
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Old 04-30-06, 04:04 AM   #8
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Looks like you still got about 5mm of adjustment in the FD braze-on tab. The outer-cage should be only 1-2mm above the teeth. If run out of range on the FD hanger, you can pull out some small circular files or a small Dremel stone and extend the slot downwards. As long as you leave just 1mm of material at the end, you'll be fine.



Here's the Park Tool - Front Derailleur Adjustment procedure. Go in order.

Another VERY, VERY IMPORTANT adjustment right after the height is the lateral rotation. Note that A LOT of shops teach their mechanics to align the outer-cage parallel with the chainring. While this gives consistent results, it gives consistently mediocre results! The procedure on the Park Tool sign works better by having you align the outer cage with the chain when it's in the tallest gear combination. This takes into account the BB-spindle width, rear-dropout spacing and chainline variables as well. Combined with the trapezoidal-shaped cage (wider in rear), this adjustment lets you have the widest sweep of the chain across the rear-cluster without having to adjust the FD trim to avoid rubbing. Also gives better shifting as well.

Another good trick is to narrow the gap at the front of the cage by bending the tip of the inner cage to the outside. This helps move the chain from the small/middle ring up to the big-ring quickly and briskly.
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Old 04-30-06, 06:46 AM   #9
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One last bit of advice.

The sequence of adjustments is significant. Position of the derailleur on the seat tube - low limit screw - cable tension - high limit adjustment. Each one affects the subsequent adjustments. Doing them out of order can lead to major frustration.
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Old 04-30-06, 08:04 AM   #10
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Your derailleur is a double, for a compact, not for a triple. It should work fine. It is mounted too high, and should be much closer to the large chainring. The cage needs to be able to move squarely above the large chainring. One question: is your BB a 111mm symmetrical? For this crank, that is what you need.
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