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Thread: Gluing Tubular

  1. #1
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Gluing Tubular

    So I tried gluing my first tublar tire. I used Hutchinson glue. Put two layers on a rim, a layer on a tire. Put it on a wheel. Which was very very hard to do, even after I left a tire on a rim under pressure for a few days. Let it seat for couple days at 150psi. Today I deflated a tire, and I could seperate a tire from a rim edge in a lot of places, even where it was glued when I put a pressure tire seperated from a rim. So my first attempt is a complete failure
    So what's the next step? Try applying glue to the edges where tire is not glued, or take a tire off and start over? What should I do with an old glue, thats on a rim and tire?
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    sch
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    Durak: Now you might appreciate the attractions of Tufo's approach. Unfortunately the inside of the tire
    is not exactly the same as the outside of the rim so some areas of incongruency are inevitable. It doesn't help that the inflated tire wants to rotate 180D so the valve and tape are on the outside. Gluing the edges is probably enough. I experimented with a variety of contact cements (long ago) and all of them increase their grip over a period of time. so the tire is likely to stay in place with a generous coat of glue, which you have likely applied. Regluing is done with another coat of glue. Removal: you are on your own, solvent and mechanical removal is what most use. Some glues are tenacious and film forming enough to be pried up and popped off. Heat will usually soften it enough to scrape gobs off, leaving other gobs to be dealt with.... Assume you will never have a flat, be without a cell and designated pickerupper
    and the tires will never wear out. When they do buy new wheels and use Tufos, wait five yrs before sharing your experiences.
    Steve

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Tufo approach?
    P.S. These tubulars won't be for everyday ridding.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    Senior Member Chongo's Avatar
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    Another option is to use the Tufo glue strips instead of glueing. Check out Tufo's website.

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Hmm, kool. How well do they work with carbon rims?
    Also now that I have glue on the rims and tire, is it still an option?

    Thanks.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    Sounds like not enough glue.

    Step 1. Take the tire off and put masking tape on the sides of the rim where the brake shoes grab.

    Step 2. Really ****** the rim and tire with glue, don't skimp.

    Step 3. Let the tire and rim dry overnight, then put the tire back on the rim. You have enough glue when a little bead of glue oozes out between the tire and rim.

    Step 4. Buy some clinchers (kidding).
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Hmm, I used pretty much the whole tube.
    I might be missing something, but if glue dries overnight then how will the tire adhere to the rim after I put it back on?
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    After the solvent has flashed off, the polymer that makes up the adhesive has long chains that, over time, "reptate" (wiggle and crawl) into entanglements and the glue forms one continuous phase. The bondline literally disappears. If you do not get rid of the solvent, it can be trapped in the bondline and make the adhesive very soft and the bond unsafe. When you use contact glues...get rid of the solvents. A spare tubular carried with a well dried layer of adhesive will bond just fine in a "in the field" replacement.

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Ok so I finally got some free time and removed the tire. It was pretty easy. Even where there was glue it came off quite easily..... I was using (and planning to use again) Hutchinson glue. Is it a not good glue or something?
    Anyway I'll try again. Put masking tape outside. Apply generous glue, two layers on a rim. Put a generous layer on a tire (pumping it to 20 psi to make job easier). Let both of them dry for 24 hours. Then put the tire on the rim. As one of the posters suggested. Any flaws in this plan since I'll be using Hutchinson glue? Maybe apply another layer on a rim, before putting on a tire?
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    What kind of glue did you use? The techniques actually vary depending upon the type of glue.

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    There should be some instructions that came with your glue and some that came with your tire. Ideally they will match up. If that fails, the Park site (as always) has a great tutorial on mounting tubulars. I used it a month ago for my first set and have been rolling fine ever since. I did the "two layers on the rim, one on the tire, dry overnight, one on the rim, mount, dry overnight" approach.

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    [Edited after realiding the OP meant put another layer of glue on the current rim and let it dry, not wet it down again just before mounting]

    Yeah, use a little more glue, let it dry, and try again
    "I don't buy new frames, it just encourages them."

    -T.G.

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    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
    Even where there was glue it came off quite easily..... I was using (and planning to use again) Hutchinson glue. Is it a not good glue or something?
    There may have been some contaminants on the rim or mould-release compound. With a fresh rim, you really want to lightly sand it so the surface is not shiny, and clean off all traces of oil & grease (409 works well). Wrap Saran-wrap around the tip of your finger so you don't get any oils on the rim, also keeps your hands clean of glue as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
    Anyway I'll try again. Put masking tape outside. Apply generous glue, two layers on a rim. Put a generous layer on a tire (pumping it to 20 psi to make job easier). Let both of them dry for 24 hours.
    That sounds good, but I would make the 2nd layer of glue on the rim wet and later. Here's the procedure I use on a new tyre:

    1. smear thick coat on tyre, work into fabric of base-tape, thick enough so that it's smooth on top
    2. lightly sand rim with 400-grit sand-paper to dull surface
    3. smear thin coat on rim, even all the way around
    4. let both tyre & rim dry overnight
    5. apply medium thick even layer on rim
    6. install tyre's valve-stem into rim
    7. pull apart tyre on each side if valve-stem and lay down on rim
    8. flip rim around so valve-stem is down, hook toes on each side of valve-stem
    9. pull apart tyre on each side and pull up and around on rim (if you grab just sidewall of tyre, you won't get glue on hands)
    10. pump up tyre slightly to get round shape
    11. adjust tyre so its centered on rim and spins straight
    12. inflate to 50% pressure and let sit overnight (little drops of glue should squeeze out, about 1-2mm in size, if not, you didn't use enough glue)
    13. when ready to use, inflate to full-pressure

    On a fresh tyre, you should use an entire tube of glue. When re-using a tyre such as replacing a flat or re-installing after fixing puncture, you just start at #5 but with a thin layer and proceed onwards. In your case, I would clean off the rim really well, sand it lightly and apply the two layers (no more needed on tyre). On the road, you really don't need to apply new glue, the old layer on the tyre & rim should be enough. Just be careful for the first couple hours to let the glue re-adhere.
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 05-12-06 at 05:28 PM.

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    What kind of glue did you use? The techniques actually vary depending upon the type of glue.
    Hutchinson glue. I think they only make one kind.
    The thing about cleanning the rims. They are Carbon. I think I read somewhere that anything that can disolve the glue can also do damage to the rims.
    Also I did clean the rims with rubbing alcohol before aplying glue.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Somebody did Thesis on this!
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  17. #17
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    I deflated the tire today. Everything seemed to take. I will be using it in Mt. hamilton Classic race. So if you never hear from me again, you'll know why.
    Basically I applied first generious layer on rim (didn't remove old layer since it was very very thin).
    Inflated a tire to 20 psi. Applied a layer to a tire. It had big patches with no glue.
    Let it dry for 24 hours.
    Applied another layer to the rim. By the end I was running out of glue in a tube. So I didn't apply as much as I wanted.
    Put the tire on. Inflated to 100 PSI, and let it dry for 48 hours.
    I am planning on taking it for a test ride, and trying to see if anything dislodges. Better on a test ride then at 30+mph down hill on a turn. Any recommendations of what I should try? I was planning on twisting it left and right while rolling slowly, taking some turns sharply.

    I think for my rear rim (if it ever shows up) I'll use tufo tape. Just need to do research on it first. To see how well it will work with carbon rims and conti tire. Althought the link above didn't really reflect too favorably on it.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    Senior Member tanguy frame's Avatar
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    I just splash some glue on the rim and mount the tire. Then I ride. never had a problem. I never check for adhesion. I take high stress corners regularly and they never rolled off. I don't get flats - they just wear out after 4000 miles. Tubulars rock!
    -Tanguy Frame

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    Umney; Visit the Vintage forum, Totally Tubular thread. Many good hints & tubular practices. http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679

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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
    I deflated the tire today. Everything seemed to take. I will be using it in Mt. hamilton Classic race. So if you never hear from me again, you'll know why.
    Basically I applied first generious layer on rim (didn't remove old layer since it was very very thin).
    Inflated a tire to 20 psi. Applied a layer to a tire. It had big patches with no glue.
    Let it dry for 24 hours.
    Applied another layer to the rim. By the end I was running out of glue in a tube. So I didn't apply as much as I wanted.
    Put the tire on. Inflated to 100 PSI, and let it dry for 48 hours.
    I am planning on taking it for a test ride, and trying to see if anything dislodges. Better on a test ride then at 30+mph down hill on a turn. Any recommendations of what I should try? I was planning on twisting it left and right while rolling slowly, taking some turns sharply.

    I think for my rear rim (if it ever shows up) I'll use tufo tape. Just need to do research on it first. To see how well it will work with carbon rims and conti tire. Althought the link above didn't really reflect too favorably on it.
    To test it, inflate to riding psi. Grab the tire and rim with both hands next to each other at 12 oclock position. Hang on as hard as you can as you rotate your wrists forward. If it moves at all and starts to peal away, its not glued right.

    I would not ride it if its not perfect, especially in a race where you will get sanctioned, like suspended for a number of races etc. if you roll a tire. And your going to have "lotsa splaining to do" to some very mad racers if you take someone with you when you crash.
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

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    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
    ...Inflated a tire to 20 psi. Applied a layer to a tire. It had big patches with no glue.
    Let it dry for 24 hours...
    This sounds like the initial install with the virgin tyre was suspect. With a bare tyre, you want to rub, knead and massage the glue deep into the base-tape. This give a strong sticky surface after 24-hours to give the fresh intermediate layer between the tyre & rim to really stick to.

    As it is, sounds like you'll be OK as you've got sufficient glue now to fill the gaps in the base-tape. To check adhesion, just push the tyre sideways on the rim once it's pumped up to operating pressure. You can use two thumbs or put your thumbs under the rim, fingers over the tyre and roll away from you.

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