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  1. #1
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    Cable routing BB hole (lack thereof)

    I bought an older (mid-eighties) univega touring frame to build up as a commuter. To my surprise there is no tapped hole in the bottom bracket to mount a shifter cable guide plastic doo-hickey. (don't know the official name of that piece)

    Q1: Are there any other options besides drilling and tapping a hole to mount one of those under the BB?

    Q2: If no other options, anybody know the proper tap size?

    thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member barba's Avatar
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    sometimes the cable routing on older frames is above the bottom bracket. Any chance their is a slotted track on top?

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    Senior Member Cactus's Avatar
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    Drilling and tapping shouldn't be a big deal. It's probably an M5 just like an H2O mount, but buy the guide first and measure the bolt that comes with.

    While you're at it, you can also drill a drain hole so that H2O doesn't accumulate.

    Once you have the bolt size, you can get an appropriate tap from www.biketoolsetc.com if your local hardware or autoparts store can't help you. The tap and appropriate sized handle probably won't cost more than $20, and if its an M5, you can use it many places on a bike.

  4. #4
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pele
    I bought an older (mid-eighties) univega touring frame to build up as a commuter. To my surprise there is no tapped hole in the bottom bracket to mount a shifter cable guide plastic doo-hickey. (don't know the official name of that piece)

    Q1: Are there any other options besides drilling and tapping a hole to mount one of those under the BB?

    Q2: If no other options, anybody know the proper tap size?

    thanks.
    Lot's of early '80s road bikes routed the shift cables over the BB with guides that clamped on the down tube.
    Here is a Campy :

    http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=94163681254

    Shimano made a similar cable guide:

    http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=94163681254

    One thing that will give away whether your frame was made for "over the BB tube" cable routing will be where the cable stop is on the chainstay (just forward of the rear derailleur). If the cable stop is on the top of the chainstay, then it is the old style that used the "over the BB tube" routing. If it's on the underside of the chainstay, then you should route your cable under the bottom of the BB tube. This is the way all modern road bikes route the shifter cables.

    The problem with modernizing a bike with the old style routing is getting the FD shifter cable routed between the down tube clamp and the FD itself. I have a bike that I did this to and I had to add a
    cable stop (a Tektro clamp on model) to the down tube. This is because the old style downtube clamp on cable guides would have a piece of cable housing running between them and the FD. The older FDs had a built-in cable stop to terminate the cable housing. Modern FDs don't have cable stops. They are designed to clamp the naked cable.

    I can't do it now, but I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post them.

    In the meantime, it's important to check and see if your chainstay cable stop is on the bottom or the top of the chainstay.
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  5. #5
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    Cascade168,

    You are right, the cable stop is on the top of the chainstay. It is this "over the BB tube" style you describe. Pictures would be great as I've inadvertantly given myself a tougher project than anticipated. Also, there are no cable stops on the head tube I just noticed. How does that work? Maybe your pictures will show that.

    Well, I wanted to build up a bike to learn the particulars.... looks like I'm going to.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Oops, don't worry about my comment regarding no cable stops on the headtube, I forgot I'm going to be putting downtube shifters on this bike so that doesn't matter.

    thanks.

  7. #7
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    I disagree about the problem with modernizing one of these being with the FD - having just worked on adapting a 1984 Nishiki that had routing like this (above BB) to riser bars, I would say the RD is a lot more trouble.

    I got it working using FD housing that ran all the way from the shifter to the BB (no downtube stops either) - capping the end should be enough to keep it from slipping through, considering the angle of the cable and the positioning of the braze-on routers. The cable routers I worked with were just big enough to fit housing through, so I ended up having to use a length of housing that ran all the way from the shifters to the chainstay stops. If you try to cut this part of housing short, so that it hangs at the BB like the FD cable, it will end up pinching against the frame and not working.

    I don't think you need to buy any extra adapters, just pay attention to and be creative with your cable routing, and be generous with your use of zip-ties. Sorry I don't have photos to demonstrate; I can get them next weekend maybe.

  8. #8
    cab horn
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    This is a non issue. Get some crazy glue/super glue and glue the plastic BB guide into place, cable tension from the wire running across it will help keep it in place (the glue should work fine). No need to drill any holes or what not.

    Then put this on the chainstay forward of the RD.

    http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi..._id=SH-6229117

    I had the same problem on my older Bianchi, and the seattube cable router just looked awful. And i'm using downtube shifters as well.

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...opP1010014.jpg

    However if you decide to go with the other (original) cable routing way, you can take advantage of the braze on.

    And then I realized it was 4 am.
    Last edited by operator; 05-23-06 at 02:08 AM.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  9. #9
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    Okay, looks like I've got a couple different options and they both lead to loosescrews.com.

    Operator: If I go with under the BB, how confident are you that super glue will really hold it in place? Given my track record of super glue with tough plastics.... my inclination would be to tap a hold in the bottom of the BB just in case. How ideal is it to have a drain hole in the BB? I live in seattle.

  10. #10
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pele
    Okay, looks like I've got a couple different options and they both lead to loosescrews.com.

    Operator: If I go with under the BB, how confident are you that super glue will really hold it in place? Given my track record of super glue with tough plastics.... my inclination would be to tap a hold in the bottom of the BB just in case. How ideal is it to have a drain hole in the BB? I live in seattle.
    So sorry it took me this long to get this stuff together, but here I go ......

    As you will see from the pictures, my bike had the Shimano cable routing bracket that you can get from Loosescrews. When you go to that Loosescrews page, you will see in the part description that it includes a cable housing stop in the bracket. It also says that you needed an FD that had it's own cable housing stop. I am including a picture of the old FD so you can see what that was like. The other piece that you will need to do this job, in addition to the Shimano cable routing bracket, is a clamp on cable stop for the seat tube. Here is the one I used:

    http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...20Cable%20Stop

    I see that the 1 1/8" are out of stock at BiketoolsEtc, but these are also in the QBP catalog and can be ordered from almost any LBS. Obviously, you need to measure your seat tube and see what size you need, but it's most likely 1 1/8". You can get black or silver.

    In the pictures you will be able to see the clamp on the down tube, the short piece of cable housing to make the turn up to the FD cable clamp, the way the cable housing piece is "stopped" by the cable guide bracket at one end and the Tektro clamp at the other end, how the RD cable is routed over the top of the BB tube to the cable housing stop on the top of the chainstay, and the old style FD. All of the part on this bike (an '83 Nishiki Century) are plain ole Shimano 105. This is my rain bike and it gets a lot of mileage. I apologize for everything being covered in pollen in the pics, but that's what we have in southern NH right now (ah choo!!!).

    With all due respect to the other posters, this solution does not include glue, tie wraps, bubble gum, or other not_really_great solutions. There are real cable stops and by using a piece of cable housing that is about 6" long you actually get a smoother bend in the bottom of the FD cable than you do with the modern solution that give a tight bend under the BB. This is a very solid solution. I hope the pictures will help you get a good installation for your FD on your vintage frame. Best luck with your project ;-)
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  11. #11
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    I forgot one picture of the top_of_chainstay_cablestop and I am resending the old FD with the integrated cable housing stop circled.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  12. #12
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pele
    Okay, looks like I've got a couple different options and they both lead to loosescrews.com.

    Operator: If I go with under the BB, how confident are you that super glue will really hold it in place? Given my track record of super glue with tough plastics.... my inclination would be to tap a hold in the bottom of the BB just in case. How ideal is it to have a drain hole in the BB? I live in seattle.
    How confident? It hasn't come off in a year, through rainstorms and sub zero (celsius) temperatures. Just make sure you clean the area you're applying it to thoroughly and you should have no problems.

    The tension from the cables applies a great upward force to keep the guide in place anyways.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  13. #13
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascade168
    So sorry it took me this long to get this stuff together, but here I go ......

    As you will see from the pictures, my bike had the Shimano cable routing bracket that you can get from Loosescrews. When you go to that Loosescrews page, you will see in the part description that it includes a cable housing stop in the bracket. It also says that you needed an FD that had it's own cable housing stop. I am including a picture of the old FD so you can see what that was like. The other piece that you will need to do this job, in addition to the Shimano cable routing bracket, is a clamp on cable stop for the seat tube. Here is the one I used:

    http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...20Cable%20Stop

    I see that the 1 1/8" are out of stock at BiketoolsEtc, but these are also in the QBP catalog and can be ordered from almost any LBS. Obviously, you need to measure your seat tube and see what size you need, but it's most likely 1 1/8". You can get black or silver.

    In the pictures you will be able to see the clamp on the down tube, the short piece of cable housing to make the turn up to the FD cable clamp, the way the cable housing piece is "stopped" by the cable guide bracket at one end and the Tektro clamp at the other end, how the RD cable is routed over the top of the BB tube to the cable housing stop on the top of the chainstay, and the old style FD. All of the part on this bike (an '83 Nishiki Century) are plain ole Shimano 105. This is my rain bike and it gets a lot of mileage. I apologize for everything being covered in pollen in the pics, but that's what we have in southern NH right now (ah choo!!!).

    With all due respect to the other posters, this solution does not include glue, tie wraps, bubble gum, or other not_really_great solutions. There are real cable stops and by using a piece of cable housing that is about 6" long you actually get a smoother bend in the bottom of the FD cable than you do with the modern solution that give a tight bend under the BB. This is a very solid solution. I hope the pictures will help you get a good installation for your FD on your vintage frame. Best luck with your project ;-)



    Very nice solution. With the Tektro Clamp-on Cable Stop you have here. you don't even need to use an old pre 80s front derailler because by using the Tektro you are getting the free cable with no housing coming up to the front derailler. Am I right in thinking can use a modern front derailler in combination with the Shimano clamp-on Cable Guide?

    Tektro clamp-on cable stop:

  14. #14
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman
    Very nice solution. With the Tektro Clamp-on Cable Stop you have here. you don't even need to use an old pre 80s front derailler because by using the Tektro you are getting the free cable with no housing coming up to the front derailler. Am I right in thinking can use a modern front derailler in combination with the Shimano clamp-on Cable Guide?

    Tektro clamp-on cable stop:
    Thanks for your kind comments ;-) And, thanks for posting that picture of the Tektro clamp-on. It shows the holes for the cable housing. BTW, the derailleur housing that I used in those pictures just has the normal 4mm nylon cable end ferrules on each end. You have to do a bit of fiddling around to get the piece of cable housing at the right length and the Tektro clamp-on rotated to the right spot, but these things become pretty obvious when you get down to doing the job.

    I would say, without hesitation, that you can use any current Shimano road FD (of course, you need to match FD's to things like chain widths, etc). They are all bottom pull and that would be assumed for this solution. The new FD in those pictures is a Shimano FD-5501 (a 2005 Shimano 105 road double).

    This solution, basically, allows you to use a current road front derailleur on an old frame that has a top mounted chainstay cable stop (which implies top_of_the_BB_tube_cable_routing). That Shimano cable guide from Loosescrews is made for 1 1/8" tubing, and many of the bikes from the early '80s were 1 1/8" steel. It looks to me that the very similar Campy Nuovo Record would work just as well. I bought this bike new in '83 and the Shimano part is still perfect, so no worries about longevity.

    I believe this answers your question, but if you have more, please fire away.
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  15. #15
    cab horn
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    With all due respect to the other posters, this solution does not include glue, tie wraps, bubble gum, or other not_really_great solutions
    With all due respect - supergluing the BB guide does not include securing an ugly (make that TWO) pieces of metal to your downtube/seattube AND it also allows you to use a modern FD. Not to mention you now have 2 clamp on pieces to adjust and a piece of shifter housing to size.

    My solution takes care of the modern FD routing and the clamp on guide on the chainstay takes care of cable to the RD. I fail to see how your solution is superior.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  16. #16
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    Hi all!

    I'm trying this on an On-One Il Pompino to try and make it a multi-speed cross bike. I'm using a DMC "rear mech" hanger (fancy English term for clamp-on RD hanger) that slides into the horizontal rear dropout and is fastened by the rear skewer.

    Cableing issues brought me to this page, and I'll thank you all in advance for the advice offered.

    Still can't find a good clamp-on chainstay cable stop for the RD however. Will try full housing route for the RD.

    Will post pics and either gloat of my success, or seek more guidance if I fail.

    Thanks again guys!

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