mattface 

I'm trying to remove an old Shimano BB. I just bought a new Wrench Force BB/cassette tool. The kind with bottom bracket splines on one end, and cassette lockring splines on the other.

Anyway, I removed the non drive side plastic cup just fine, but the drive side with the metal splines that are a part of the cartridge don'e want to seat properly on the tool. I blew out the splines with compressed air, and it looks clean, but the tool won't sit down firmly in the splines. it seems to fit both the splines on the new BB fine, and the splines on the old BB still look fine although the tool is already a bit buggered up. I know which way to turn it, and I did grease the threads when I installed it, but it won't budge. I'm about ready to take it down to the LBS, but I was hoping someone here might be able to tell me how to get this old BB out. The bearings are kinda crunchy, I'll pitch it when I get it out. So I don't mind hurting the BB, but of course I'd like to keep the frame in good shape.

mechBgon

Sounds like one of the old ones. The LBS might be your answer to this one. If you want to try something else, you could get a pipe wrench and see if you can engage just the rim of the cartridge and get it to turn like that.

Naturally I never do things like this myself, there were no witnesses AT ALL

mattface 

the "old ones"? It's probably from about 1997. did they have a different spline?

mechBgon

I recall there being a change in the design of the tools, back in the day. So that sounds like what you're up against. The LBS that sold you the Wrench Force tool will probably cut you some slack and bust the cartridge loose for you as a freebie.

Retro Grouch 

Cartridge bottom brackets can be a bugger to break loose.

The best tool for breaking them loose is a genuine Shimano bottom bracket tool. It sits closer to the bottom bracket and doesn't tip and break contact so easily. Bottom brackets that wouldn't budge using a Park tool have come loose easily using the Shimano.

Another trick is to get a bolt that has the right thread to fit the bb spindle. Use the bolt to hold your tool steady against the bottom bracket so that you can concentrate on putting the power on your wrench.

Yet another trick that I've used successfully is to chuck your bottom bracket tool vertically in a sturdy vise. Get a helper to help you thread the bike onto the tool, think through which way to twist it and use the whole bike frame as a lever. I've never had that technique fail me and all of the frames came through the process unscathed.

mattface 

ooooh that bolt idea is a good one!

sch

The main change in the tool seems not applicable here, but Shimano's tools, if bought at the beginning of the change from sq taper to splined axle, were not large enough inside to fit over the larger axle and could not adequately engage the cup splines. It required removal of 30-40 thou of metal from the inside of the tool. More recent BB axles are a bit larger, and the tool needed another 20-30 thou removed for the more recent axles. The spline in the cups has been constant. His tool sounds modern, even if the bb is not so doubt if that contributes. If the axle is hollow, an allthread through the axle with some nuts and washers should hold it in place well enough to torque the cup out. (Most axles are hollow) absent a crank fixing bolt which will fit through the hole in the end of the tool.
Steve

mattface 

using a washer and the crank bolt to hold the tool in place did the trick!

Thanks for the advice.