Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Keep bending breaking BB spindles...

    OK I am 195 lbs, I ride the bike on tours, meaning I carry up to about 70lbs on it from time to time. I am a strong rider.

    I have broken two Phil Wood spindles, and have bent the most recent Shimano I chose as a replacement.

    What the heck is going on? Are there any "super spindles" out there?

    This is a custom made bike, so there is no brand associated with it.

    I am using a Campy crank and chainrings... been using the same for nearly 20 years.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    26,176
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow, I have never heard of ANYONE breaking a Phil Wood bb spindle, particularly not TWO of them and a lot of riders are much heavier than you. Are you, by any chance, using their Ti spindles?

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,014
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You might talk to the Phil Wood people. They might be curious about seeing the broken pieces. The only thing I can think of is the Spindel length is too long. It is like a lever the longer it is the more force is generates. How long is the spindel?
    2000 Montague CX, I do not recommend it, but still ride it.
    Strida 3, I recommend it for rides < 10mi wo steep hills.
    2006 Rowbike 720 Sport, I recommend it as an exercise bike.
    1996 Birdy, Recommend.
    Wieleder CARiBIKE (folding), decent frame.

  4. #4
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Lexus Texas
    Posts
    2,791
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Spindles are made from tool steel (Rc hardness 58 - 62)
    I find it difficult to believe that they can be broken under normal use.
    The Al alloy crank arms would fail well before a spindle.

    Enjoy

  5. #5
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by powers2b
    Spindles are made from tool steel (Rc hardness 58 - 62)
    I find it difficult to believe that they can be broken under normal use.
    The Al alloy crank arms would fail well before a spindle.

    Enjoy
    I know, hard to believe. I returned the first one to Phil, it was a hollow steel spindle, it had been in use 15 years. They sent me a new solid steel spindle as a replacement for free.

    I still have that one, but it is slighly bent.

    I replaced it with a Shimano about 5 or 6 years ago... now that Shimano is bent.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    541
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hollow or solid it makes little difference. I used to break and twist 19mm bmx spindles all the time too, I'd suggest you either change your riding style(not practical) or get one of them new fangled o/s shimano set ups.

  7. #7
    hello roadfix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    thank you for asking
    Posts
    18,502
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I need to see this for myself....
    .cinelli.olympic.surly.long.haul.trucker.kona.ku.surly.steamroller.
    .litespeed.classic.litespeed.firenze.bianchi.pista.dean.colonel.plus.more.

  8. #8
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fixer
    I need to see this for myself....
    How, what can I show you? Tonight I will measure the BB and the spindle... need photos of what? Hard to show the bending as it only is visible when the bike is loaded and turning the cranks. (although a runout gauge would show it)

    The broken spindle was sent back to Phil.

  9. #9
    New Orleans
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,528
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Spin more.

    Wow, that is something. Maybe you should use lower gearing-especially when accelerating.
    Tall gearing puts a lot more stress on the spindle.Luck,Charlie

  10. #10
    hello roadfix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    thank you for asking
    Posts
    18,502
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    How, what can I show you? Tonight I will measure the BB and the spindle... need photos of what? Hard to show the bending as it only is visible when the bike is loaded and turning the cranks. (although a runout gauge would show it)

    The broken spindle was sent back to Phil.
    It's just that I would imagine the crank itself would either develope a crack or deform at the spindle interface before any harm is done to the BB spindle...
    .cinelli.olympic.surly.long.haul.trucker.kona.ku.surly.steamroller.
    .litespeed.classic.litespeed.firenze.bianchi.pista.dean.colonel.plus.more.

  11. #11
    Taking "s" outta "Fast" AfterThisNap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Zoo York City
    Posts
    1,989
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    time to ditch the square interface. Go with an external BB and a newer hollowtech/gigapipe integrated spindle system and you'll probably find the next weakest link in your drivetrain.
    Carries suspicious allegiance to Brooklyn Machine Works.

  12. #12
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AfterThisNap
    time to ditch the square interface. Go with an external BB and a newer hollowtech/gigapipe integrated spindle system and you'll probably find the next weakest link in your drivetrain.


  13. #13
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,418
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Is it really that much hassle to replace a bb or a spindle every couple of years?

    You'd think that after all that time the bb would be in need of a replace/repack.

  14. #14
    likes avocadoes
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    oakland, ca
    My Bikes
    heh, like that info would fit here...
    Posts
    1,125
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    How, what can I show you? Tonight I will measure the BB and the spindle... need photos of what? Hard to show the bending as it only is visible when the bike is loaded and turning the cranks. (although a runout gauge would show it)

    The broken spindle was sent back to Phil.
    If it's only visible under load then it's not the spindle that's bent. More likely frame flexing.

  15. #15
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Lexus Texas
    Posts
    2,791
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quick calcs indicate that the crank or pedal axle would bend/fail well before the spindle.
    While I can accept that a 15yo spindle might beak (age, fatigue, manuf. flaw), <see earlier post>

    Enjoy

  16. #16
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    My Bikes
    Litespeed Firenze / GT Avalanche
    Posts
    3,162
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As you have already found, a solid spindle is more likely to bend than a hollow one.

    If I had a bottom bracket that lasted for 15 years, I would get the exact same one again.

  17. #17
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BostonFixed
    Is it really that much hassle to replace a bb or a spindle every couple of years?

    You'd think that after all that time the bb would be in need of a replace/repack.
    Sealed Phil Wood... not exactly something to repack. BTW the Phil Hubs still feel quite good and allow the wheels to roll and roll and roll on the stand.

    I would think that the 22 year old bearings would have long ago needed replacing.

    Probably should, just for cause.

  18. #18
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, I tore into the spindle/chainring affair last night... Sigh. The hex bolts on either side were looser than I would have liked... didn't take much effort to "break" them loose.

    The crank opposite of the chainring felt quite good and tight. But the chainring side seemed to have some wear. Upon closer inspection, there is obvious wear on the mating surface of the tapered square. The chainring mating surface has some obvious wear also. Loose fitting these pieces back together and I can get some rocking motion at the chainring/crank to spindle connection.

    I tried tightening the bolts again last night and I could still see a bit of deflection just rotating it by hand (no loading).

    Looks like it should all be replaced.

    The BB bearings still feel quite good and smooth, with no apparent rocking or movement. I suspect the BB is still in good shape. This Shimano part is, after all, only about 6 years old.

    The real question is: Should a Campy crank work with a Shimano spindle... or are there some incompatibilites there?

    Taking a good look at other places on this long, hard ridden, bike (22 years) it is evident that it needs a good sandblasting and painting...

    How long does steel last anyway?

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    541
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalanche325
    As you have already found, a solid spindle is more likely to bend than a hollow one.
    That's a slightly misleading statement doncha think?

  20. #20
    Yet another vegan biker
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Trapped behind the corn curtain
    My Bikes
    Sakae Prism, Vintage Fuji bike(S), too many bikes, one from scratch bike.
    Posts
    965
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The real question is: Should a Campy crank work with a Shimano spindle... or are there some incompatibilites there?
    They are incompatiblle. They seem to fit but will not position themselves correctly onto the spindles.

    The good news is that you can get a Campy ACS (Aluminum Cup Solid spindle) BB for around 20 bucks. I picked up several, along with Veloce and Centaur 10 speed cranksets and a ACH (hollow) BB for my Centaur set..

  21. #21
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,052
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by silversmith
    They are incompatiblle. They seem to fit but will not position themselves correctly onto the spindles.

    The good news is that you can get a Campy ACS (Aluminum Cup Solid spindle) BB for around 20 bucks. I picked up several, along with Veloce and Centaur 10 speed cranksets and a ACH (hollow) BB for my Centaur set..
    That seems to be the case here... even though it has seemed to work for about 5-6 years... the resulting wear has exacerbated the issue to the point that it no longer works.

    Thanks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •