will dehne

I had a Bontrager Wheel failure on a recent cross country supported tour. (no heavy load, just me)
The wheel failure showed up when the wheel no longer ran true and could not be adjusted. Close inspection revealed that one or more spokes pulled on the rim so it cracked.
The tires being used were 700 x 28 inflated to 110 to 120 PSI.
My weight is 195 lbs. The bike was perhaps 25 to 30 lbs.
There were no flats from impact such as pot holes. There is no damage on the outer rim.
This Bontrager wheel has 24 spokes. We had at least 5 wheel failures on this tour. I had only 3 flats in 3000 miles, some had 20. None of my flats were blow outs.

Speculation: The roads traveled were very coarse secondary roads. Washboard effect in places.
My bike is a Cannondale Aluminum bike which provides no dampening at all. The vibration was fierce in places. I am not too angry at Bontrager but wonder if I should buy their product again?
The tour leader was adamant not to replace this wheel with the same and instead lend me for free a 36 spoke Mavic (See FarHorizon wheel failure report above!). I did not have any further wheel problems but need to figure what to do in the future. Unfortunately, bad road surfaces are a fact of life where I bike. (I am NOT talking potholes!)
I am interested in this forums advise please. I have not yet gone after Bontrager.

jimmythefly

More information, please:
How many miles do the wheels have on them?
How old are the wheels ?
Are you the original owner?
Ever had any spokes replaced or other service on this particular wheel?

I'm curious what you mean by secondary road. Gravel/dirt? or just bad chip-seal asphalt?

will dehne

The wheels were purchased for this tour and I had perhaps 500 miles of training ride on them. The wheel failed after 2000 miles into this tour.
New wheels, not used wheels. The LBS knew why I wanted new wheels. My original wheels, for this R2000 Cannondale, were Crane Creek and not acceptable to the tour leader due to service issues. So I got new wheels from my LBS.
The wheels were new and I had no other service done to them except perhaps true them up. My LBS would do that, not me. No spokes were replaced.
Secondary roads were just bad-seal asphalt.

demoncyclist

A cross country tour at your weight was not the place for the Bonty wheels. Best bang for the buck on bulletproof wheels would be Mavic Open Pro rims (32 or 36 hole, laced 3X), 105 or Ultegra hubs, and good quality double butted spokes (DT Swiss or Wheelsmith). Built by a highly experience builder, these wheels will last a LONG time. There is nothing really wrong with Bontrager wheels. In fact, if the shop that sold them to you "checked the spoke tension" when they sold them to you, and the rim failure was due to them over tightening the spokes to the point that they pulled through the rim, then it is the shop's problem, not Trek's. I am about your weight, and I also ride a Cannondale, and dampening is not a problem. The tire is what protects the rim from damage. Road vibration should have no effect on the structural integrity of a properly tensioned wheel. If the cracks in the rim are only around the spoke holes, or eyelets if the rim has them, then it is definitely a build problem. I ride lower spoke count wheels (the Gipiemme Grecal Parades that came on my R900), and I have had no issues with the wheel even coming out of true.

will dehne

Your advise matches what the very experienced tour leader said.
He did not bring up the possible fault of the "Wheel Builder". I suppose you mean the LBS. If you would see the skill of the people at my LBS you would not have a lot of confidence. This town is not a bike oriented town. We get what we can get.
I guess I better start looking at Mavic with 36 spokes.
Thanks.

spider-man

That's also not many spokes for a cross-country tour. I too would recommend a 36-hole wheel, at least on the back, and butted spokes. 3X.

You'd probably be fine on the hubs mentioned above, but for the ultimate in stoutness and low maintenance, consider Phils.

I rarely have to even true my handbuilt wheels.

supcom

Are the wheels under warranty? If so, than a replacement is certainly in order - maybe a credit toward a different type of wheel. Talk to your LBS. If the wheels are not in warranty, better luck next time.

For what it's worth, I have about 10,000 miles on a set of Bontrager wheels with no problems. Many, many miles of chip seal.

will dehne

Supcom:
Nice to hear from you again. Yes, the wheels should be under warranty but this particular LBS has been difficult to deal with and I have switched to another LBS. Not many choices in this town.
I am debating if it is worth my while to contact Bontrager. What do you think? It is more the principle than the money for me.
I hear what you say about your Bontrager. Counter that with the advise of a tour leader with over 20 Cross Country trips. He insists that the low count spoke wheel is no good for this kind of trip.
Did I say that we had 5 wheel failures out of 30 bikers on this trip? None of the failed wheels were to the tour leaders expectations.

will dehne

Thank you for the response. I like you to know that I understand and agree with it.

supcom

Whether you have "switched" to another LBS or not, if the wheels are under warranty, the guy who sold you the wheels should take responsibility for them. It certainly seems to be a cut and dried case for a warranty replacement. Since you were running a low spoke count wheel, I assume you weren't riding with loaded panniers. So, the wheels should certainly be sturdy enough to withstand more that 2000 miles of normal road conditions. You could certainly contact Bontrager but they may want you to work through the dealer who sold you the wheels. It wouldn't hurt to call and ask.

Good luck on getting some consideration.

Old Hammer Boy

Will,

Which model wheels, Select, Race, Race Lite, Race X Lite, etc.?? Some have eyelets, some don't. That can make a difference when it comes to rim cracking.

will dehne

I understand. I just got this bike back from Savannah in a FEDEX box sitting in my garage. This weekend will be devoted to get to the bottom of this. I do not know the exact type of Bontrager wheel. I relied on this LBS for the selection with money being no object. I hate to tell you my ignorance. What are eyelets?
One of my many failings is that I rely on expert advise and find another expert if that don't work.
BTW, Supcom asked a load question above: No load, it was a fully supported tour.

Opal Gem

Wouldn't a wide touring tire mounted on what is essetially a race wheel cause undue outward pressure on the rim wall?

herbm

Will,
I am very interested to hear what model of Bontrager wheel this is. Your problem sounds exactly like mine!

I have a Trek Pilot 2.1 with Bontrager Selects, the bike is 15 months old and has almost 4000 miles on it.
Tires are Bontrager Race Lites 700x23...
I am picking my bike up from the LBS today with the 2nd replacement rear wheel.
The first at about 8 months and 1800 miles, I thought it needed to be trued..took it into the lbs and they discovered a nasty crack in the rim...Trek replaced it...

Last friday I was cleaning my bike, and notice the rim seemed out of true again...on closer inspection, I noticed a bulge at rim near one of the nipples, looking closer I saw the exact same type of crack...the lbs could not believe it when I brought it in with the same type of crack!

I am extremely careful of where I ride, no curbs, holes,etc...I hate getting flats...
I weigh about 220lbs, so I am not sure if these are not strong enough....Trek has no idea, they have been great about rushing out a new rim each time...but this is very frustrating and a bit scary...a failure during riding could be disasterous!
Could it be a wheel design issue? Am I too heavy for these wheels?

rhenning

I have been a bicycle mechanic on cross country bike tours since 1991. Not every year but most. I have about 30,000 tour miles on the road. If you are touring use 32 or 36 spoke normal wheels. All the fancy wheels will break. My analogy is the the fancy wheels are like a Nascar Stock Car. You would not think of driving a stock car to work every day in traffic. Any tour is like driving to work not like doing the Daytona 500. Two things I would never take on a extended tour are fancy low spoke wheels and a bike with STI shifting. Every trip we have several of each of these things break and there is no repairing them. Barcons do not break nor do 32 spoke Mavic or Sun rimmed wheels. Roger

Old Hammer Boy

You know how some shoes have metal "rings" where the laces go through, and some just have a hole. An eyelet is the metal thing, and it tends to reinforce the rim. Selects and Race models don't have them, Race Lites and above do. Regardless, unloaded any Bontrager wheel should have held up, unless you are a real clydsdale (and I know you're not), or you clobbered something. If it simply failed as you describe, there was a material or production problem, or a spoke or more were improperly tensioned. I ride Race and Race Lite wheels, and my wife rides Selects. Neither of us have had any problems in over 15k miles, and our roads aren't great. I will admit that I often check tension and true, but it doesn't change hardly at all. I won't tell my wife's weight, but she is lighter than I, and I tip the scale at about 155 lbs. It will be interesting to discover the model.

Deanster04

Deamon Cyclist is right on! I am 225lbs and ride the washboard roads often and nothing beats a 32 hole Open Pro rim with DT spokes. They have eyelets that distribute the load where the nipple contacts the rim. Light wheels are really "event" wheels like riding to the local cyclist hangout or racing but, real wheels are meant for real riding/training/touring....etc. Just look at the riders the boutique wheels are designed for small and light. For us we ride the upper end of the engineering safe operating area for a lot if the wheels sold. Look at the type of riding you are going to do and equip yourself appropriately.

Good luck.

will dehne

Roger:
You are saying the same as the tour support for my tour. Therefore I tend to agree with what you say.
For clarification: This was a fully supported tour. We traveled VERY light. I would not compare this with a loaded bike tour.

herbm

Thanks..I may to look at different wheels...I am not racing, but I do ride lots of metrics and approx 3-4 centurys a year...My riding buddy and I both bought our Pilots at the same time, he has had no problems at all, but he is also 30 or so lbs lighter..
I got my replacement wheel yesterday, I noticed that now when coasting the wheel makes the ticking sound I hear on lots of other bikes..prior to this it was silent.
Is this something changed in the wheel? The lbs swears its the same cassette??

will dehne

I hope not. The LBS sold me THOSE wheels WITH THOSE tires 700 x 28.
I will report the exact Bontrager description once I get it unpacked. (this weekend)

will dehne

OK, got it out of the FEDEX box. It is a BONTRAGER RACE wheel with 24 spokes. There is no other description which I can see. The spokes are in pairs, about 25 mm apart and a much bigger distance to the next pair of spokes.
There are no eyelets which I can see. Four (4) spokes have craked the wheel, one of which is pretty bad.

will dehne

OK, checked it. BONTRAGER RACE. Four hole show cracks big enough to see with naked eye. Closer inspection may reveal more but who cares.
Tires are Continental 4 Season Grand Prix 700 x 28. They held up for 3000 tough miles. Only 3 flats. No blow outs, no snake bites, no pot hole flats.
IMHO the wheels should have held up, BUT my tour expert said it would not. I think Bontrager has a little problem. I will let them know.

will dehne

BONTRAGER RACE.
I think that these things are marginal at best for over 200 lbs bikers on a rough road. Just MHO. But I have seen a few failed wheels.

Old Hammer Boy

I expect it was the rear wheel. I'm a bit lighter than you, Will, but that is unusual that they failed. These wheels are machine built, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but, because of this, the shop should have (1) checked the tension and true before you rode them, and (2) had you come back after a few hundred miles to retension and true. I honestly think if this would have been done, you should have been fine. I actually have two pair of RACE wheels, and they are still just fine, but I do own a truing stand and tensionometer and check them once or twice a year.

One another subject, I'm still really proud of your +50 accomplishment of 3,000 tough miles. Congratulations, again.

rhenning

Will the tours I work on are also fully supported. You only need carry what you will to use in the next 25-35 miles. If you are interested you can see their web site at pactour.com. We recomend that if you bring fancy wheels that you bring 6 of the special spokes with you. Two for the front and two for each side of the rear. You should also bring any special tools you would need to true them. I ended up making a Bontager tool and a spoke in Sierra Grande Arizona last Feb. in order to repair a Rolfe (same as a Bontager). Roger