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Old 06-14-06, 02:08 PM   #1
Flanderflop
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Installing Campy Brakes on Carbon Fiber

In the list of things I should know by now but don't...

I am in the process of installing rear Campy brakes on my new road frame. The brake mount on the frame is all Carbon Fiber with no protection against scratching from the Brakes. This would be okay with the standard Shimano Brake washers (which are smooth), but the Campy ones have teeth around the edges to lock them in, and it makes me really nervous mounting them on CF. Do people just take the risk? Are you putting Shimano washers on with the Campys? or is there some other route that I don't know about?
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Old 06-15-06, 04:32 AM   #2
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I believe the serrations are to keep the brake from pivoting. I just had my beloved Waterford painted. The first time I installed the Ft der, braze on, and wheels the paint got scratched from the same serrations. That is just a fact of life. Do it, get over it and have some fun. If not, then just hang the frame up in the living room and stare at it. It aint good for anything if there aren't any parts hanging from it. Good luck

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Old 06-15-06, 04:48 AM   #3
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I wouldn't.
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Old 06-15-06, 05:12 AM   #4
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if it does scratch the the paintwork the brake will cover it so you wouldn't know.
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Old 06-15-06, 05:52 AM   #5
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You guys are probably right, but just to clear the question up, THERE IS NO PAINT. I am okay with scratching paint, it happens all the time, where I get scared is scratching Carbon Fiber because it weakens it structurally. Take Handlebars for example the most common way to break a CF handlebar is through mis-instalation of shifters or brakes. The small resulting scratches cause the bar to fail when put into use. I realize that the CF at the brake site is much thicker and will probably be fine. I would guess that if no one here has had a problem with it I will just go ahead and put the campy washer on instead ordering up a Shimano.
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Old 06-15-06, 05:56 AM   #6
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Uh.
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Old 06-15-06, 06:14 AM   #7
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I wouldn't.

Uh
Any other thoughts? What would you do?
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Old 06-15-06, 06:25 AM   #8
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I'd use the smooth washers. I recently installed Dura Ace brakes on an Easton carbon fork and used a smooth spacer washer to avoid scratching the carbon.
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Old 06-15-06, 07:27 AM   #9
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OK, thanks for everyones help what I ended up doing is inserting a small smooth washer inbetween the frame and Campys washer of death. This should save the frame and doesn't push the brake too far out.
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Old 06-15-06, 12:20 PM   #10
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Hillrider got it..
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Old 06-16-06, 03:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanderflop
You guys are probably right, but just to clear the question up, THERE IS NO PAINT. I am okay with scratching paint, it happens all the time, where I get scared is scratching Carbon Fiber because it weakens it structurally. Take Handlebars for example the most common way to break a CF handlebar is through mis-instalation of shifters or brakes. The small resulting scratches cause the bar to fail when put into use. I realize that the CF at the brake site is much thicker and will probably be fine. I would guess that if no one here has had a problem with it I will just go ahead and put the campy washer on instead ordering up a Shimano.
Carbon frames aren't really all carbon. They do have aluminum reinforcements in the headtube and BB area. Call the MFG to see if there is any reinforcements in the brake mounting area. Better yet, ask about the Campy brake. They have the answer ready for you, it just cost a phone call. Good luck.

This is why I use steel. Scratches won't cause stress fractures that could kill me.

Tim
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Old 06-16-06, 08:18 AM   #12
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Call the MFG to see if there is any reinforcements in the brake mounting area.
Tim
No, its carbon. There is no paint, so you can look at it and see that it is carbon. I think the smoothe washer thing will work. something has to touch the frame there, and short of using a rubber bumper a smooth washer is probably the safest. If I am wrong,well the damage is already done.
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Old 07-12-06, 02:22 AM   #13
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ok... i hope that i can recover from my stupidity. i installed brand new dura ace brake to a brand new carbon frame without the flat washer. (there wasn't one that came w the brake). so, the star washer came to contact directly with the frame (and fork). the washer kinda took a bite at the mount location. the surface has been scratched and some carbon is fraying at the rear brake mount. there is a some denture in at the mount location also due to the scratch. may be something like 0.5mm and the thickness of the rear mount location is about 4mm. i'm going to get a flat washer that is bigger than the scratch to spread out the force. the question is -- is the frame hosed? i just hope that the frame is not structurally compromised... <sigh>
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Old 07-12-06, 03:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by use_ur_granny
ok... i hope that i can recover from my stupidity. i installed brand new dura ace brake to a brand new carbon frame without the flat washer. (there wasn't one that came w the brake). so, the star washer came to contact directly with the frame (and fork). the washer kinda took a bite at the mount location. the surface has been scratched and some carbon is fraying at the rear brake mount. there is a some denture in at the mount location also due to the scratch. may be something like 0.5mm and the thickness of the rear mount location is about 4mm. i'm going to get a flat washer that is bigger than the scratch to spread out the force. the question is -- is the frame hosed? i just hope that the frame is not structurally compromised... <sigh>
I guess this a hotter topic than I thought it was. Why doesn't someone check out new carbon bikes and see what they come from the Mfg equipped with? If the serrated washers will destroy the frame and render it unsafe then a Mfg wouldn't knowingly equip it with such.


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Old 07-12-06, 06:02 AM   #15
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I got my frame from Viner, and they come with whatever you ask them for, so I guess if you are the one making the pick its on you and not the MFR. The same is true of most of the high end small companies. Most of the Carbon frames you see from the big guns (Trek etc) unfortunately all come stock Shimano which has the smooth washer. I guess the one to check is Colonago. Anyone know if they spec Campy or if they have an aluminum reinforced brake mount? Either way, I think we have firmly established that you should not use the Campagnolo Serrated washer on a straight Carbon Frame.
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Old 07-12-06, 06:13 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by use_ur_granny
i'm going to get a flat washer that is bigger than the scratch to spread out the force. the question is -- is the frame hosed? i just hope that the frame is not structurally compromised... <sigh>
Not 100% sure what will happen with your frame, but if it were me, I wouldn't toss the frame out just yet (see disclaimer below) Like you said there is a lot of material in that location so it will probably hold up. On the other hand, scratched do weaken Carbon fiber and that portion of the frame takes a lot of pressure durring braking. The good thing is that if it does start to go, that portion of the bike is not used to hold you upright so it won't dump you immediately although you may have some problems with the rear brake.

So like I said, don't scrap a $1000 frame for something that probably wont go wrong. Watch that area and pay attention if your rear brake starts behaving strangly. But ride on.

**Disclaimer** This is just my best guess, and I am usually wrong about everything, so I won't be held responsible if this area does fail and you sustain some sort of injury. My official advice is that you click the link below and buy a brand new Viner.
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Old 07-12-06, 08:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Flanderflop
Not 100% sure what will happen with your frame, but if it were me, I wouldn't toss the frame out just yet (see disclaimer below) Like you said there is a lot of material in that location so it will probably hold up. On the other hand, scratched do weaken Carbon fiber and that portion of the frame takes a lot of pressure durring braking. The good thing is that if it does start to go, that portion of the bike is not used to hold you upright so it won't dump you immediately although you may have some problems with the rear brake.

So like I said, don't scrap a $1000 frame for something that probably wont go wrong. Watch that area and pay attention if your rear brake starts behaving strangly. But ride on.

**Disclaimer** This is just my best guess, and I am usually wrong about everything, so I won't be held responsible if this area does fail and you sustain some sort of injury. My official advice is that you click the link below and buy a brand new Viner.
hey flanderflop -- thanks for the comments and advice. i totally understand the nature of the carbon fiber and stuff. i won't hold anyone responsible but myself. i guess i'm just looking for some reassurance that i can still use this frame and have a good night sleep. seriously, i literally lost some sleep over this! what can i say? it is a beautiful machine. it would be a crime to throw the frame away just because of this. again, thanks for the info (and support)!
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