Next Chapter in my Wheel Woes (long)
02-10-03, 04:22 PM
#26
Breaker of Spokes
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Thanks for the words of advice and cheering up, especially jayhop and Dougmt. I called the shop where the new wheelbuilder works and found out his work hours so I can go in and see him. He works during the days and since I have a doctors appt Thurs, I think I'll drop in and see him after that. I got two independent recommendations to this guy. One of them from a guy that rides WAY more than I do. I trust his opinion a lot.
I'm kinda jazzed now...
I'll keep ya'll posted and thanks again for all the tips and advice.
PBW
I'm kinda jazzed now...
I'll keep ya'll posted and thanks again for all the tips and advice.
PBW
02-13-03, 04:21 PM
#27
Breaker of Spokes
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UPDATE:
Talked to that new wheelbuilder today. I got a much better feeling from him. He echo many of the same thoughts as some of you have mentioned. He said there is no reason a 36 spoke wheel should not hold up for me. He did recommend going from a 4 cross pattern back to a 3 cross pattern. He's going to call me back with a quote after he looks up some different hubs to use.
I'm going to see how these new wheels work out and if I like them, then i'll have him build me some cyclocross wheels.
It was funny because he had his cross bike up on the stand and was working on it when I walked in the door. That definitely gave me a warm and fuzzy. Then another guy came into the shop and he was showing this guy his new track bike (fixed single speed.... it was pretty scchhweeeet). So it's clearly obvious this guy is a serious cyclist, which I can't say about the other guy.
So anyhoo... the frustration level is quickly dropping.
Keep ya posted.
PBW
Talked to that new wheelbuilder today. I got a much better feeling from him. He echo many of the same thoughts as some of you have mentioned. He said there is no reason a 36 spoke wheel should not hold up for me. He did recommend going from a 4 cross pattern back to a 3 cross pattern. He's going to call me back with a quote after he looks up some different hubs to use.
I'm going to see how these new wheels work out and if I like them, then i'll have him build me some cyclocross wheels.
It was funny because he had his cross bike up on the stand and was working on it when I walked in the door. That definitely gave me a warm and fuzzy. Then another guy came into the shop and he was showing this guy his new track bike (fixed single speed.... it was pretty scchhweeeet). So it's clearly obvious this guy is a serious cyclist, which I can't say about the other guy.
So anyhoo... the frustration level is quickly dropping.
Keep ya posted.
PBW
02-14-03, 09:48 PM
#28
Just ride.
Sounds encouraging... hopefully you'll have a good set of hoops by the time this lousy weather ever breaks. Good luck! :thumbup:
03-15-03, 06:33 PM
#29
Breaker of Spokes
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UPDATE:
Welp, I think I am in cycling heaven. I have a new set of wheels. I abandon the previous set (original front wheel and the rear wheel that was built by the LBS I bought the bike from). I went to a guy that was highly recommended by several people. He build me up two wheels (front/rear) that are:
Velocity Dyad 36 hole Rims
14 gauge DT spokes
3 Cross pattern
An older set of Specialized Armadillow Tires 700x28c (They are the kind before they went to red sidewalls, these have tan sidewalls).
Ultegra Hubs on front and rear.
I just had him switch my cassette over. I might have him rebuild my old rear wheel someday. He said that 4 cross pattern was definitely the wrong way to go for me. Also these rims have a much more V shape to them. I've got about 160 miles on them, and after my ride tomorrow I should have about 210. Then I'm gonna take them back so he can check them out. He recommended bring them back in after I put a few hundred miles on them. They spin sooooo true. It's incredible. I've even noticed an definite increase in my speed, not much only about a mph in my average speed.
The only downside I noticed, both these new tires and my old specialized Armadillo tires were lopsided when I put them on. It isn't the rim, it's the tire. It's like there's a weight on one part of the tire. It's very wobbly. I had them put the tires on again and it's not there as bad, but it's still slighty out of balance. I'm going to ask him about that when I take it back. I've never had this problem before. I wonder if I need to put water/soap on the inner tube to get it seated properly.
Anyway... I actually now believe that I am able to run on 36 spoke, 3 cross wheels... LOL. I swear I thought I was going to have to go to 40 spoke wheels.
I actually asked this guy about building me some cyclocross wheels and he said it would be no problem. I think I have found myself a new wheel guy.
Thanks everyone for all the help.
PBW
Welp, I think I am in cycling heaven. I have a new set of wheels. I abandon the previous set (original front wheel and the rear wheel that was built by the LBS I bought the bike from). I went to a guy that was highly recommended by several people. He build me up two wheels (front/rear) that are:
Velocity Dyad 36 hole Rims
14 gauge DT spokes
3 Cross pattern
An older set of Specialized Armadillow Tires 700x28c (They are the kind before they went to red sidewalls, these have tan sidewalls).
Ultegra Hubs on front and rear.
I just had him switch my cassette over. I might have him rebuild my old rear wheel someday. He said that 4 cross pattern was definitely the wrong way to go for me. Also these rims have a much more V shape to them. I've got about 160 miles on them, and after my ride tomorrow I should have about 210. Then I'm gonna take them back so he can check them out. He recommended bring them back in after I put a few hundred miles on them. They spin sooooo true. It's incredible. I've even noticed an definite increase in my speed, not much only about a mph in my average speed.
The only downside I noticed, both these new tires and my old specialized Armadillo tires were lopsided when I put them on. It isn't the rim, it's the tire. It's like there's a weight on one part of the tire. It's very wobbly. I had them put the tires on again and it's not there as bad, but it's still slighty out of balance. I'm going to ask him about that when I take it back. I've never had this problem before. I wonder if I need to put water/soap on the inner tube to get it seated properly.
Anyway... I actually now believe that I am able to run on 36 spoke, 3 cross wheels... LOL. I swear I thought I was going to have to go to 40 spoke wheels.
I actually asked this guy about building me some cyclocross wheels and he said it would be no problem. I think I have found myself a new wheel guy.
Thanks everyone for all the help.
PBW
03-15-03, 11:50 PM
#31
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Yo, What kind of spokes have you been using? ( DT or Wheelsmith I hope)
(Going to 3x is an EXCELLENT idea)
Ask your next wheelbuilder IF or what kind of "spoke prep" he uses, EVERY good wheel builder I've met "preps" their spokes. Both Wheelsmith and DT have their own types. The automotive industry uses some stuff called "threadlock"(sp?) to Lock bolts and nuts in place, it comes in several strengths rated in colors. Purple? works well for spokes because it won't let them work loose but leaves them adjustable. "Old Timers" use Linseed Oil.
The basic idea for using "prep" is to lubricate the threads so the wheels "build" easily and the stuff "sets up" and works like a weak adhesive to keep the spokes from working loose but won't hold so tight that they can't be adjusted. I've tried to build wheels without "prep" with results/problems very much like you've described. I've built wheels for myself and many others, with "prep", that rarely needed to be touched with a spoke wrench.
I really don't think using 32 spoke wheels is a problem vs 36 spoke. Years ago a mechanic that worked the Giro for 7-11 told me he thought the 32 spoke wheels where actually stonger. I think he's right in part because that's about all you see anymore. I've been accused of rating high on both the "Pork" and the "Animal" scale and have had no problems with 32 (or 36) spoke wheels as long as I "prep" the Spokes.
Ride Straight and Tight
Pat
(Going to 3x is an EXCELLENT idea)
Ask your next wheelbuilder IF or what kind of "spoke prep" he uses, EVERY good wheel builder I've met "preps" their spokes. Both Wheelsmith and DT have their own types. The automotive industry uses some stuff called "threadlock"(sp?) to Lock bolts and nuts in place, it comes in several strengths rated in colors. Purple? works well for spokes because it won't let them work loose but leaves them adjustable. "Old Timers" use Linseed Oil.
The basic idea for using "prep" is to lubricate the threads so the wheels "build" easily and the stuff "sets up" and works like a weak adhesive to keep the spokes from working loose but won't hold so tight that they can't be adjusted. I've tried to build wheels without "prep" with results/problems very much like you've described. I've built wheels for myself and many others, with "prep", that rarely needed to be touched with a spoke wrench.
I really don't think using 32 spoke wheels is a problem vs 36 spoke. Years ago a mechanic that worked the Giro for 7-11 told me he thought the 32 spoke wheels where actually stonger. I think he's right in part because that's about all you see anymore. I've been accused of rating high on both the "Pork" and the "Animal" scale and have had no problems with 32 (or 36) spoke wheels as long as I "prep" the Spokes.
Ride Straight and Tight
Pat
Last edited by pat5319; 03-16-03 at 12:09 AM.
03-16-03, 05:45 PM
#32
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Pat,
Both wheel builders used DT spokes.
The first wheelbuilder (the one I went away from) did not use any kind of spoke prep and actually refused to use it until I was coming in there every weekend to get my wheel repaired. They rebuilt it with spoke prep and I had the same results.
This new wheel builder uses DT spokes and I'm pretty sure he uses spoke prep.
The bike came with 32 spoke wheels. I trashed the original rear wheel in a matter of 3 months.... going down a hill at about 35 mph, two spokes broke. I was lucky to not lose it because the wheel was so bent it was hitting the frame. The original front wheel lasted until I got these new wheels, but it had two spokes break, one after about 6 months, and the second after about 9 months. I don't plan to ever go back to 32 spoke wheels.
Put another 56 miles on the new wheels and they are holding up great. I now have a mysterious creaking sound from both my handlebars and either my seatpost or seatstay, or someplace in that general area. Mmmm..
THanks for all the advice guys. Take it easy.
PBW
Both wheel builders used DT spokes.
The first wheelbuilder (the one I went away from) did not use any kind of spoke prep and actually refused to use it until I was coming in there every weekend to get my wheel repaired. They rebuilt it with spoke prep and I had the same results.
This new wheel builder uses DT spokes and I'm pretty sure he uses spoke prep.
The bike came with 32 spoke wheels. I trashed the original rear wheel in a matter of 3 months.... going down a hill at about 35 mph, two spokes broke. I was lucky to not lose it because the wheel was so bent it was hitting the frame. The original front wheel lasted until I got these new wheels, but it had two spokes break, one after about 6 months, and the second after about 9 months. I don't plan to ever go back to 32 spoke wheels.
Put another 56 miles on the new wheels and they are holding up great. I now have a mysterious creaking sound from both my handlebars and either my seatpost or seatstay, or someplace in that general area. Mmmm..
THanks for all the advice guys. Take it easy.
PBW
