seamuskeogh

I am a 22 year old soon to be college graduate, and employee of my local bicycle shop. I make 8 dollars per hour and receive no benefits. This is a better wage than some of my co workers who only make 7 dollars an hour. I really like my boss as an individual, he is a really good guy who I have known and cared about for a long time. But no matter how much I like him as a person, this is no way to run a business.

I have talked union with my co workers for a few weeks now and the idea seems to be apealing to many of us. Do any of the other mechanics who check this forum have experience with organizing with your coworkers and attempting to collectively bargain with your employers? Do you guys have cordial or tense relationship with your manager or owner?

CHenry

You are talking about organizing shop employees. Remember some mechanics are also going to be shop owners; they won't be candidates for organizing. Also remember that you would be bargaining against small business employers, some of whom are exempted from certain laws that govern larger businesses. I wouldn't say you shouldn't look into it, but you just don't have a lot of leverage as a group, IMHO: the power behind organized labor is the threat of strikes. Forming an association might at least give you the opportunity to solicit group insurance, including health insurance.

seamuskeogh

Quite right that bicycle store owners would not be candidates for organization, but certainly in my case that is of little importance. The owner works for twenty hours a week, and keeps his wife who doesn't work in the shop on the pay role as the highest paid employee. There are currently 10 employees, and I know the store would not be able to function without their labor. If those 10 employees were ready to withhold their labor collectively, they could not be replaced without a financially sucidal endeavor to find new employees and train them.

you are definately right about the strength of such a small organization, so I would think that expanding the organization drive to other local bicycle shops would not only be beneficial, but probably the difference between success and failure.

SoonerBent

As a small business the question is: can the owner afford benefits and higher wages. Maybe so, maybe not. Health insurance especially costs an employer a small fortune unless they employ a large enough number of people to have some negotiation power with the insurance companies.

Also, as far as unionizing. Please don't take this wrong but how hard would it be to replace the whole crew of a bike shop. As for many of the local bike shops around here it woudn't be too tough. As CHenry said the only leverage a union has is the threat of strike. If the owner could just replace everyone who strikes you have nothing.

SB

CHenry

Having family members on a business payroll as no shows is irksome, especially when they're paid better than everyone else and do nothing (At least be glad they don't come in and get in your way). But this is legal for a private company, and may be done in order to use the wife's W-2 to justify things like car leases written off to the business and larger contributions to retirement plans. Lots of small business owners do that sort of thing for tax reasons, this may be on advice of their accountant.

As for you, I think you need to see yourself as a service worker in a leisure industry as much as a skilled tradesman. If you want to affiliate yourselves with an existing union organization, Teamsters or a retail employees' union, for example, remember you will also have to be collecting and paying dues. And then it comes back to the whole leverage issue: what effect is a lockout going to have, if it even came to that? None, most likely.

I hate to rain on your parade, but most communities wouldn't notice a walkout of employees of a bike shop, and the business might not be able to accede to your benefits demands even if they wanted to.

bmclaughlin807

And yes... judging by some of the 'mechanics' employed by a couple of the LBS's around here, they wouldn't hesitate to hire some high school kid who can read to replace you. (Hell... the reading part may not even be a requirement!)

I've personally argued with two 'mechanics' at two different stores within the past two weeks about the fact that rear wheels have two different length spokes!

Went in today to buy spokes to rebuild my rear wheel. Specifically said I needed to rebuild the REAR wheel. When he asks me for the size, I hand him two spokes, one of each size. He promptly asks me 'Well, which length do you want?" ..... "I need to rebuild the REAR wheel, they have two different lengths." "No they don't"

*sighs*

I'm scared to go looking for the bearings and new axle.

bicimechanic

Seamus, you in the Baltimore area I take it? If this is the person I think it is then send me an e-mail so we can catch up. Jason

bicimechanic@hotmail.com

seamuskeogh

I think that if the people who had to work at the shop were democratically in charge of hiring and firing decisions you would have a much higher caliber of mechanic working at your local bicycle shop.

It is in the interest of the owner to keep his store manned by children. Children can be paid the minimum wage, and will work part time hours. It isn’t in the interest of the customer, who has inexperienced uneducated workers servicing his bicycle, or the other workers who are having their wages driven down by this unfair economic competition.

CastIron

I'm a Teamster. They are the most useless money sucking organization I've ever encountered. Unions exist these days for the sole purpose of serving themselves, not their membership. I've flatly been told that managment would be paying me more today had our union asked for it. They'd also have us on manadatory full early retirement had we asked. But the union didn't. In a union shop managment won't offer anything--it's part of the process. They still take $52/month, though.

seamuskeogh

CastIron that is very interesting and disturbing. Do you mind me asking what kind of work you do as a Teamster? Have you thought about joining the Industrial Workers of the World? it is a different kind of union, it doesn't function as a top down beurocratic entitity like the other big professional unions. They are committed to shop floor democracy, as in you negotiate your own contract, you don't give up control to some paid organizer.

www.iww.org

dafydd

while this is true, it's also in part due to the very seasonal nature of the job. i work at a shop with a 7-man crew and the boss; 5 of us have heath insurance, and probably only one person will get laid off in the wintertime. i doubt most other shops in philly can say that, and we only can because we get our business from college kids, commuters, and vintage parts sales, so business doesn't drop off as bad. most LBS, at ones with real winters, their business drops sharply come halloween or thanksgiving. most people aren't willing to put up with working 8 months out of the year; hence quite a bit of the workforce comes from those who aren't otherwise occupied in the busy months. not saying you're wrong, but it's not a full view of the picture. i've yet to meet a rich LBS owner, at least one where the shop was their primary income.

i think if you're going to achieve what you're looking for, you're going to have to look outside of just your shop, and communicate with those at other LBSs. i think any single owner resistant to collective bargaining would be able to break a small group by simply threatening to fire anyone who doesn't fall in line.

CastIron

My occupation is discussed adequately in my profile. It's unlikely our membership is going to change. I accept the facts as they are.

In today's economy I view unions as a fraternal member service organization more than what they are now: a political entity and business adversary.

As an aside: Isn't the IWW also a socialist political party? Perhaps I'm mistaken with the name, it just rings a vague bell in that direction.

Sheldon Brown

Back during the mid '70s bike boom, I was head mechanic for a shop in Cambridge, Mass., owner was an evil bastard, second worst boss I ever had.

Some of us decided to unioinize. We contacted the Teamsters who sent an organizer over. I was elected shop steward. A union election was called, and the owner responded by raising everybody's pay by maybe a buck an hour, contingent on the union vote being rejected.

It was close, but the union lost the vote. Within a few months every employee who had been involved had been replaced except for me (and I'm sure that the boss didn't know I was shop steward or I probably would have got the ax as well.)

Retail operations are notoriously difficult to unionize, I don't really know why that is.

Sheldon "I Tried" Brown

genericbikedude

to the OP: the problem is not that YOU and YOUR CO WORKERS cant organize. the problem is that the working class can't come together and demand universal health care and decent minumum wages from the government.

too many people believe that millionare-hood is just around the corner, and they want to be part of the class that keeps them down, and safeguard the wasteful rights of that class that is keeping them down in the meantime. its pathetic, really.

DieselDan

Something else along the lines of a union, what about a bicycle mechaincs association (guild)? My father beongs to an agriculture teachers association that represents high school agriculture teachers with school boards, state assemblies, and Congress and provides them with a network to find related jobs in the event of a layoff.

urbanknight

I used to work at Home Depot, and the managers were on alert and took some kind of action whenever rumors of "union activity" started (I assume people were fired or had other things done to their files). Pretty crappy, and no surprise to me why the company has such poor customer service (but such wonderful news to give stock holders), but that's life and the biggest motivator I had to finish college and get out of retail!

ScrubJ

I have to ask the question(s) begging to be asked. How many of you actually work for minimum wage, how much SHOULD minimum wage be, AND if your wages go up, won't the cost of your service go up also?

KDB

A couple of responses/thoughts:

1) You describe the boss as decent guy that you like. What is it that you want? higher wages? more benefits? Go talk to him about what you want and why and not from a purely "fairness" perspective, but from a problem solving perspective. Can he work with you to get some type of health care coverage.

I am not being naive here; he may be tell you to get lost, that it's not possible. He may be hurt that you feel the way you do, as from his point of view he may be doing well by his employees, etc.

2) Regarding unions (I've been a member of several, ever since I was 16 and my dad would get my brother and me jobs on construction sites---Laborer's Union; and I am still a union member today). Simplifiying it too much: you owe most of your current standard of living to the willingness of workers in this country to unionize and stand up to big business. Basic things like weekends off, 8 hour work days, safe work places, due process in the promotion and firing processes, etc. all come from unions and their efforts.

Big business has waged a 25 year campaign to convince people that unions are the problem with keeping American business competitive...as damnable a lie as has ever been told and sold. Unfortunately most people now believe that unions are a problem and not a support/aid. Agreeing on this point with Castiron: poorly run unions and corrupt unions don't help much and I've seen lots of both. The men who literally gave their lives to the union cause would, I think, be ashamed of the behavior of some union bosses.

I could go on here for quite a while, but unions per se are not the problem: The American worker and work force are still the most productive in the world. Here is the "problem", a producer can make a certain level of profit using an American work force, but even taking into account shipping and other costs, the producer can make a much better profit using foreign labor. If the American producer doesn't take advantage of this reality, some competitor will and our producer finds his products are now fighting for market share against a cheaper product that may be as well made or close enough to capture a good part of his/her business; and thus our producer finds him/herself in a dilemma that, if not addressed, will over time put him/her out of business. This has been going on for close to 60 years...read "No Hands" the book about Schwinn and you'll get a bike company version of some of this issue.

3) Back to the OP; union supporter that I am, I think you would do better to use a personal approach that involves trying to get the boss/owner work with you to solve the challenges you and your co-workers face. An adversarial approach (i.e., we are being treated unfairly, so we are forming a union, and then we'll show you) is, I think, unlikely to succeed.

n4zou

The only way you could make it possible to do this is to have a professional certification program for bicycle mechanics and convince everyone that has a bicycle to only take there bicycle to a shop that has a certified bicycle mechanic. This would increase the pay of every "certified" bicycle mechanic in the country. There are a few bicycle certification originations but there operated by each bicycle mechanics school that teaches bicycle mechanics. No one knows this, as there is no national origination that promotes certified bicycle mechanics. One LBS has a certified bicycle mechanic by a school up north but no one cares. Here is a prime example of what you need.
https://www.sae.org/servlets/index
I know you have heard of SAE certified automotive mechanics. You should also know that before SAE became established as a certification origination your local automotive mechanic was in the same shape as your typical bicycle mechanic today. Not much pay for a demanding profession. Go into your local automotive dealership today with there certified SAE mechanics and find them making more money than your typical four year college graduate could ever dream of making! Not only that the dealership has an ongoing problem hiring and keeping enough of them for there shop. None of them are in a union as that is unnecessary as well. Want more money? Simply move on to another shop willing to pay you more if your current employer is unwilling or unable to do so. Personally, I would go to a SAE certified school to become a mechanic where a prospective employer will pickup your school costs if you make good grades and sign a contract that you will work for that employer for a contracted number of years upon successful completion of that SAE certified school. Take me for example. I was a certified gas turbine systems tech (Aerospace) and retired at 47 years of age.

OLDYELLR

One thing to always remember; whenever there is a union, there is a third party taking a piece of the pie. Working things out amicably without a third party is always the best solution. Even hinting at bringing in a union will brand you as a troublemaker and you'll be gone at the first opportunity. Sheldon's words hold a lot of weight. If unionizing during the bike boom era was foolhardy, it would be suicide today. Just look at al the complaints in this forum about the high prices charged for service at the LBS. If bike mechanics were unionized, work would cost twice as much and take twice as long.

Landgolier

The first thing your boss is going to ask is, "What's in it for me?" If the answer to that isn't something positive (i.e. not just "we won't go on strike"), forget about it. You need to be able to answer that question.

Wrenching is unfortunately a lot like messengering, most people with the trainability and fortitude to make more than just a temporary career out of it can make better money doing something else once they're ready to work less seasonally or for a salary rather than per hour. Those that do stay in the bike world will move up the food chain within the shop to work as managers or even owners, or perhaps get into something like framebuilding. That's why whenever somebody asks on here about becoming a wrench as a career, 90% of the people on this board will tell them to go learn to be aircraft mechanics or something like that.

supcom

I believe you should carefully examine this assumption. Since your success or failure in organizing your labor is going to rest very much on the validity of this statement, you had better make sure it is a good one.

Of the 10 employees, how many of them have a skill that is truly difficult to replace? If you live in any sizeable community, I would expect little difficulty in finding qualified people. As you are a college student, I assume that there is a university nearby. I'll bet that there are a bunch of students like yourself who know something about selling or fixing bikes and who would be willing to take a job doing so.

ScrubJ

Keeping in mind the fact that the shop must pay its basic bills, rent, utilities, etc, at what point does the $300.00 bike become a throw away? I work in an industry that has a product price range from somewhere around $70.00 to $20,000.00. Our shop labor rate is $65.00 an hour. How much are you willing to pay me to work on your $70.00 product?

Not trying to knock good wages, just trying to keep everything in focus. What is a GOOD wage in a bike shop?

zonatandem

Nowadays union are considered 'not necessary' by employers and the government. Unions are on a very downhill slippery slope. Autoworkers? Aerospace? Pilots? . . . etc. Remember when our great (?) Prez Reagan fought, and won, against the Controllers Union? Yes, unions got us the 40 hour week and benefits and most non-union folks don't even know that.
Have held union cards in the ITU (International Typographical Union) and the NALC (National Assoc'n of Letter Carriers). Always made a good living/wage/benefits.
However, agree that jointly for the workers to approach the small business owner may be better tact.
Are you going to make a career out of wrenching? Is this your life's ambition? What is your major in college?
The LBS owner is not driving a big Mercedes we bet! He is making a living. Has his wife on the payroll . . . maybe she works the shop's books from home?
Wrenching is for 98% of the folks a temporary job . . .
A neat idea by you . . . but a bit of a pipedream. Get real!

55/Rad

Lot of good information in this thread...

One thing:

Many times, I've found that these family members personally invested big time into the business - usually at start-up. Putting them on the payroll is just another way to move the money around in terms of dividends.