Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,012
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    700c vs 27 inch? Why the change?

    I'm actually just curious. As far as I can tell, there is no apparent difference in ride or strength. Was it style or a desire to come into compliance on a race rule? Was it a combination of both or did a couple of bike designers just decide it was a cool wheel size?
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  2. #2
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    4,097
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    700c (622mm) and 27" (630mm) rims were diff standards, from Europe and the U.S., I think. Higher-end American bikes mainly had 700c wheels even in the '70's, and my guess is that racing's influence pushed the U.S. toward all 700c during the 1980's. But I really don't know much of this history. It's a question for Sheldon, and probably for many others who are older than I.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    25,400
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tim's right. 27" was strictly an American/British size and most of the bikes made or imported here were of middle to low quality.

    By the 60's and 70's most really good quality bikes came from Europe (primarily France and Italy) and were equipped with 700c wheels so these became the mark of a "serious" bike. The Japanese followed the European model and used 700c wheels on their better bikes and it became the standard.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    587
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think that another nail in the 27" coffin was that there were a lot of bikes with tubular wheels....the ability to swap into and out of clinchers was attractive and that worked best with 700c. There have been lots of wheel standards over the years but I never quite got why 27" got started. I wonder if it wasn't some marketing ploy to produce an answer to a question no one asked....

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    25,400
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fsor
    I think that another nail in the 27" coffin was that there were a lot of bikes with tubular wheels....the ability to swap into and out of clinchers was attractive and that worked best with 700c.
    Good thought and I'm sure that was a factor. Again, "serious riders" used tubulars and 700c clinchers so they were copied by everyone who wanted to look serious.

    There have been lots of wheel standards over the years but I never quite got why 27" got started. I wonder if it wasn't some marketing ploy to produce an answer to a question no one asked....
    I think 27" wheels were developed in England, probably before or at least contemporary with 700c. The Brits always go their own way and didn't care what the Europeans were doing. Ever see the headline reported to have been in a British newspaper: "Fog Covers Chanel. Continent Isolated."

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pleasanton Tx
    My Bikes
    old,older.and very old
    Posts
    1,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think 27s(clenchers) were developed to compeat with sprints(sew up) and were a 700(622) rim with a bead added which made the rim size 630.Dunlop developed the 27 and also dunlop developed the wire bead tire.
    That my guess anyway???

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,398
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Practical reason ...

    May I suggest that 700c (622mm) was chosen because it was the largest wheel that would make a bike. On road bikes with little tiny tires, the ability to role over irregular surfaces is even more critical than on MTBs where you can pack lots of air and rubber on to keep the rim safe.

  8. #8
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,012
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    OK, thanks all! I was curious and I got SOME answers aty least, or decent opinions!
    Ah well, it appears to be one of those mysteries, and I think I did see that headline in a book on Cultural Morphology discussing some of the quirks of British culture (NOT a hit at you English, just relating a scrap of text!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  9. #9
    The Rabbi seely's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,947
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm relatively certain that 700c came awhile before 27", in my understanding of bicycle chronology. I have seen some wooden rims from the turn of the century that were 28"/700c according to their owner.
    commuter turned bike mechanic turned commuter (also a Velocity USA employee, but this is my personal account)

  10. #10
    Senior Member laterider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    97
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    metric sizing won over english sizing... it happened in my car too..

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Auld Blighty
    My Bikes
    Early Cannondale tandem, '99 S&S Frezoni Audax, '65 Moulton Stowaway, '52 Claud Butler, TSR30, Brompton
    Posts
    2,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by frameteam2003
    Dunlop developed the 27 and also dunlop developed the wire bead tire.
    That my guess anyway???
    frameteam2003 is closest to the mark. Dunlop introduced 27" to produce a guaranteed market, otherwise they'd have to compete with European manufacturers in 700C.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Middle of the road, NJ
    Posts
    2,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All of the above are correct, some additional details. 700c where mainly sew-ups while 27 where mainly clinchers. in the late 70's early 80's, when nice quality bike came from Japan, there was a revolution in tires. Good quality clinchers where being made in both sizes, by good quality I mean kevlar bead light weight tires. So you could hav a folding tire, for a spare, that you could pump up to 100+ lbs, with the convience of a clicher, ie no glue to change a tire. And the race was on, Bicycling magazine had an article, titled something like 'Which will win; 27 or 700'. Need less to say we now know who won(and which of us backed the wrong horse). The bottom fell out of the Japanese bike import industry due to increased tariffs, and with it went any support for the 27" wheel. Along with some good components not made by Shimano, my Suntour Cyclone will still stand up to campy, and that is a loss for us all. If you want to get some blank stares, and cause mass confusion, go in to your LBS and ask for 27x1 tires with a kevlar bead.

  13. #13
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,012
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by leob1
    All of the above are correct, some additional details. 700c where mainly sew-ups while 27 where mainly clinchers. in the late 70's early 80's, when nice quality bike came from Japan, there was a revolution in tires. Good quality clinchers where being made in both sizes, by good quality I mean kevlar bead light weight tires. So you could hav a folding tire, for a spare, that you could pump up to 100+ lbs, with the convience of a clicher, ie no glue to change a tire. And the race was on, Bicycling magazine had an article, titled something like 'Which will win; 27 or 700'. Need less to say we now know who won(and which of us backed the wrong horse). The bottom fell out of the Japanese bike import industry due to increased tariffs, and with it went any support for the 27" wheel. Along with some good components not made by Shimano, my Suntour Cyclone will still stand up to campy, and that is a loss for us all. If you want to get some blank stares, and cause mass confusion, go in to your LBS and ask for 27x1 tires with a kevlar bead.
    Who makes the 27"X1" Kevlar Bead? I'd love to find some myself and knowing who does make'em might help me out!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Middle of the road, NJ
    Posts
    2,143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tom I haven't seem them since the early 90's. Specialized made them, sorry for get the name. I also kind of stopped riding that bike, heavy tires, and friction shifters, aren't much fun for me any more, the index shifter revolution spoiled me. Check Performance, and Nashbar.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    10,059
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oddly enough many places in Europe call 700c rims 28 inch rims. It's the *only* thing I've ever seen measured in inches in Europe. Go figure....

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    25,400
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Oddly enough many places in Europe call 700c rims 28 inch rims. It's the *only* thing I've ever seen measured in inches in Europe. Go figure....
    Some bicycle fittings are still spec'ed in "English" measurements.

    English (ISO) bottom bracket cups are 1-3/8" diameter (often seen as 1.37 or 1.375 or as their metric equivalent of 34.9 mm) and 24 tpi (threads per inch). Even Italian bottom brackets used the mixed measurements of 36 mm x 24 tpi.

    The new "oversize" handlebar and stem diameter is 1-1/4", again sold under their metric equivalent as 31.7 or 31.8 mm (the exact measure is 31.75 mm) and steerers are either 1" (25.4mm) or 1-1/8" (28.6 mm).

  17. #17
    ride, paint, ride simplify's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R300 Caad2
    Posts
    1,202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe
    Who makes the 27"X1" Kevlar Bead? I'd love to find some myself and knowing who does make'em might help me out!
    Harris Cyclery has some beauties, I'll plug Sheldon's stuff anytime because he just plain rocks. He's got interesting pages on wheel and tire sizing too, on his site. Go here to see the tires, scroll down for the narrow, folding Avocets (27 X 7/8), and also Panaracer 27 X 1:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/630.html

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •