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Old 08-09-06, 01:38 PM   #1
na975
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help! wheel builders.

how can i distinguish the difference between DT swiss champion & competion spokes? are there any markings stamped on them? I want to have wheels built with DT comp spokes , i need to be sure of what im paying for. HELP!
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Old 08-09-06, 01:42 PM   #2
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DT champion spokes are straight-gauge, while DT comp are double-butted. This means that DT comp spokes are thicker at the ends, thinner in the middle. It's quite noticeable, actually.

If you don't trust your bike shop not to cheat you on the spokes, I wouldn't trust them to build the wheel either
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Old 08-09-06, 02:00 PM   #3
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If you have access to some kind of caliper you can measure the spoke diameter in the middle and torward the ends. Competitions should be approximately 2mm toward the ends and 1.7mm in the middle.

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Old 08-09-06, 02:30 PM   #4
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on DT website its discribes the comp spokes as cold forged, this is stronger right????
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Old 08-09-06, 02:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na975
on DT website its discribes the comp spokes as cold forged, this is stronger right????
Stronger than what? Cold forging generally produces strong bike parts, yes. I'm not sure how the lesser spokes are produced.

I wouldn't worry too much such detailed comparisons, unless you have an actual issue that you're trying to resolve. If you buy fancier stuff just because it has more buzzwords, you'll spend a lot more money and not gain much enjoyment or reliability.

Note that I *do* think buying double-butted spokes is a worthwhile upgrade. Double-butted spokes do offer many advantages over straight-gauge spokes, chiefly they are more elastic while just as strong. Read this for the details: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes
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Old 08-09-06, 04:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943
If you have access to some kind of caliper you can measure the spoke diameter in the middle and torward the ends.
I don't think that you really need a caliper. Just run your fingers down the length of the spoke. You will be able to feel the butting. Once you know for sure that it's there you can see it.
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Old 08-10-06, 12:20 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by moxfyre
Stronger than what? Cold forging generally produces strong bike parts, yes. I'm not sure how the lesser spokes are produced.

I wouldn't worry too much such detailed comparisons, unless you have an actual issue that you're trying to resolve. If you buy fancier stuff just because it has more buzzwords, you'll spend a lot more money and not gain much enjoyment or reliability.

Note that I *do* think buying double-butted spokes is a worthwhile upgrade. Double-butted spokes do offer many advantages over straight-gauge spokes, chiefly they are more elastic while just as strong. Read this for the details: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes
im building a front wheel for my track bike with a 650c rim, high flange hub combo. should i go with straight ga. 14's ? I just want to use the strongest spokes for street riding , i dont want the wheel to disintegrate and flip over @ 25mph. or so
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Old 08-10-06, 12:31 PM   #8
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the lighter the spoke the stronger it is. super butted spokes, ie 14/17 gauge, were designed not for weight savings but for tandem applications. that being said, they can supposedly lead to a slightly wound up feeling whilst accelerating, but this is only a concern in trials riding or track racing, absolutly no where else. all that being said, DT spokes are piles of crap, wheelsmith is the only company making spokes of consistant length and with a tight J bend at the head which makes for a slope-less wheel build. DT spokes are made to work in wheel building machines, so they had to lower thier tolerances. lame sauce. DT just has better advertising. wheelsmith XL 14s are the lightest, strongest, most affordable best made spoke out there, when it comes to butted spokes. they also dont come in cheeze sauce black.
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Old 08-10-06, 12:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na975
im building a front wheel for my track bike with a 650c rim, high flange hub combo. should i go with straight ga. 14's ? I just want to use the strongest spokes for street riding , i dont want the wheel to disintegrate and flip over @ 25mph. or so
Straight gauge 14's are strong, as are 14/15/14 double-butted spokes. I'm no expert on this, you'd do well to read Sheldon Brown's link: he basically says that 14/15/14 spokes are as strong as 14ga spokes, only more elastic and thus likely to be more durable.

So, in a work, if you want the most resilient possible wheel, 14/15/14 spokes are probably the way to go. Though I wouldn't worry too much about your wheel disintegrating. Using a 36-spoke wheel will be extremely strong with any type of spoke, even a 32 spoke wheel is supposed to be 30% weaker than a 36, all else being equal!
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Old 08-10-06, 12:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I don't think that you really need a caliper. Just run your fingers down the length of the spoke. You will be able to feel the butting. Once you know for sure that it's there you can see it.
True, but if the caliper shows that the spokes are 2.0mm toward the ends and 1.5mm in the middle they would be Revolutions (what I use) instead of Competitions (assuming DT brand).

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Old 08-10-06, 01:46 PM   #11
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i have to ammend my earlier post. i said nothing about nipples. DT makes the best nipples. not wheelsmith. go figure. also: aluminum nipples are stupid. i've changed many a flat on a bike with aluminum nipples and velox rims strips. if they used rox strips and brass....
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