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Old 08-18-06, 12:29 PM   #1
getgonegoing
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trek 520 bar end shifters 8sp to 9sp?

Stock ultegra bar end shifter on a 1999 trek 520, shifting stock 8 speed cassette. Can the 8 speed be changed for a 9 speed and still use the same shifter?

Also will the Deore XT SGS derailleur be able to handle a 34 rear by 46 front combo?

Thanks
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Old 08-18-06, 12:33 PM   #2
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Follow up

Oh yeah the shifter is only ever used in friction mode.
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Old 08-18-06, 12:37 PM   #3
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You cannot upgrade the indexing on Shimano bar-end shifters unfortunately. However, if you just use it in friction mode, then no problem. A friction-mode shifter can deal with just about any derailer and cassette that you care to throw at it I for one use SunTour bar-end shifters with Shimano LX derailer + cassette on my touring bike.

I'm not sure about the capacity of your particular derailer, but it's quite unlikely to be a problem to go to a slightly larger cog or larger chainring, as the Deore XT is about the widest-ranging derailer available. What is your current setup, for comparison?
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Old 08-18-06, 03:47 PM   #4
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If you're using friction, no problem. I've used a Deore derailer with a 44-34 combination. 46-34 is beginning to get kind of borderline, but if your chain is long enough, it can almost certainly handle it. If that's the outer chainring, you shouldn't be using it with the large cog anyway. The extreme chainline is inefficient and rough on the chain and sprockets.
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Old 08-18-06, 07:22 PM   #5
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As others said, anything works in friction mode. The XT derailler serves an 11-34 cassette without problems, although sometimes the derailleur hanger may be a little bit too high for optimal use. For example, the derailleur on my 25" Trek 520 handles a 34 cog beautifully and could probably handle a 36; however the same derailleur on my Co-Motion tandem (18" rear end) just barely handles a 34 cog because the hanger is a bit too close to the axle.

As for handling a 46/34 combo, I assume you mean a 46 chainring, right? Well, the rear derailleur in itself can handle any chainring you care to install, be it a tiny 22 or a large 64. The limitation comes in how wide an interval you want to use it through, and it's around 47 teeth for the XT. The # of teeth it can handle is usually stated somewhere in the derailleur specs. For instance, with an 11-34 cassette and a 44-34-22 crankset, you have 23 teeth (rear) + 22 teeth (front), for a total of 45 teeth.

However, if, for example, your chain was cut for 46-36-26 chainrings and a 11-30 cassette and you want to install a larger cassette (11-34 for example), you may need to lenghten the chain by 3-4 links. Anyway, while on the workstand, make sure the chain is long enough to handle the large-large combo plus one extra link. Even if you never use that combo (you shouldn't anyway), it's nice to know you won't break your bike if you do so.
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Old 08-19-06, 04:02 PM   #6
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Thanks

Thanks for the replys it is good to know I don't have to switch out the shifter too. I am thinking of getting one of Harris/Sheldon's custom touring cassettes.
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Old 08-19-06, 04:09 PM   #7
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Ultegra Bar End Shifters only have friction option on the front derailler shifter. The rear is indexed so you need to stick with 8 speed cassette. The Dura Ace shifters offer friction or indexed on both FD and RD.
Rear should handle 34.

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Last edited by Kenal0; 08-19-06 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 08-19-06, 04:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenal0
Ultegra Bar End Shifters only have friction option on the front derailler shifter. The rear is indexed so you need to stick with 8 speed cassette. The Dura Ace shifters offer friction or indexed on both FD and RD.
Rear should handle 34.

Kenal0
I have not used this particular model of shifter, but are you sure that Ultegra bar-ends can't be put in friction mode??? That must be a recent development, because all the older Shimano bar-ends that I've seen can be put in friction mode.

A shame that they would remove such a useful feature

The Trek 520 is aimed at the retrogrouch touring-bike types who want reliable components for a cross-country trek, so I'd be a bit surprised if Trek would spec a shifter that's indexed-only.
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Old 08-19-06, 04:39 PM   #9
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I have some of the newer ones and I just went out and checked and the little ring to flip between friction and index is only on the FD.
This is from a website I found:
"Unlike the 9-speed Dura Ace, you can't switch from indexed shifting to friction mode."
Maybe if they are older they will work.
FYI- I was using that derailleur with the Ultegra bar end shifters and a SRAM 11-34 8 speed cassette without a problem

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Old 08-19-06, 06:56 PM   #10
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My Trek 520 was made one year later (model 2000), and as far as I know, the shifters are Dura Ace bar-end shifters. For quite a few years, Shimano only manufactured one grade of bar-end shifters and they were Dura Ace.

Anyway, the shifters I had on the 2000 Trek 520 were 8-speed bar-end shifters and the right shifter had a knob which allowed you to switch it into friction mode. And just like the original poster is planning to do, I used mine for about 2 years in friction mode because I had to change the chain at some point and then decided to install a 9-speed chain and cassette.


BTW, for those who wonder what happened, the original 8-speed chain was a Shimano chain which broke a few times within the first few months of ownership. The 8-speed cassette was still good, but my commuter bike needed a new cassette. As for the shifters, I eventually installed new 9-speed bar-end shifters about two years ago... when my daughter's bicycle needed 8-speed bar-end shifters.
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Old 08-19-06, 07:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
My Trek 520 was made one year later (model 2000), and as far as I know, the shifters are Dura Ace bar-end shifters. For quite a few years, Shimano only manufactured one grade of bar-end shifters and they were Dura Ace.

Anyway, the shifters I had on the 2000 Trek 520 were 8-speed bar-end shifters and the right shifter had a knob which allowed you to switch it into friction mode. And just like the original poster is planning to do, I used mine for about 2 years in friction mode because I had to change the chain at some point and then decided to install a 9-speed chain and cassette.
I think Shimano probably started making two grades of bar-end shifters because so many people are buying tri bikes and they all need bar-end shifters. They probably decided to scrimp on costs by making the Ultegra shifters un-frictionable... that's my best speculation.
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Old 08-19-06, 07:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenal0
I have some of the newer ones and I just went out and checked and the little ring to flip between friction and index is only on the FD.
This is from a website I found:
"Unlike the 9-speed Dura Ace, you can't switch from indexed shifting to friction mode."
Maybe if they are older they will work.
FYI- I was using that derailleur with the Ultegra bar end shifters and a SRAM 11-34 8 speed cassette without a problem

Kenal0
I've never heard of a front indexed Shimano barcon. I have Ultegra 8 and DA 9 speed barcons and both index only the rear and both can switch to friction mode. I can't imagine why they'd make a barcon set that indexes the front and not the rear.

---edit----

I see where you got that quote. I think Rivendell is wrong on this. If you zoom in their picture, you can clearly see the ring for switching to friction... and it's on the rear shifter. Besides, I =have= these shifters and I =know= how they work.

Last edited by halfspeed; 08-19-06 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 08-19-06, 07:43 PM   #13
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If it can be switched to fricton mode, you should be able to use them for 9-speed, as 8 and 9 are the same width with narrower cog spacing and cog width on the 9.
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Old 08-19-06, 07:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfspeed
I've never heard of a front indexed Shimano barcon. I have Ultegra 8 and DA 9 speed barcons and both index only the rear and both can switch to friction mode. I can't imagine why they'd make a barcon set that indexes the front and not the rear.
I agree, I haven't heard of front indexed shifting with barcons. But I think what he was saying about the rear shifter was that it was index only, and couldn't be shifted to friction. I've actually not heard of that either (of course that doesn't mean it's not so) with a barcon rear shifter, but it would make more sense than a front shifter with an option for friction or index, and rear with friction only.

edit: halfspeed, I just saw your edit. So it seems the Ultegras are just like the Dura-Ace as far as friction/index modes.
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Old 08-19-06, 07:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenal0
I have some of the newer ones and I just went out and checked and the little ring to flip between friction and index is only on the FD.
This is from a website I found:
"Unlike the 9-speed Dura Ace, you can't switch from indexed shifting to friction mode."
Maybe if they are older they will work.
FYI- I was using that derailleur with the Ultegra bar end shifters and a SRAM 11-34 8 speed cassette without a problem

Kenal0
This is incorrect. My Ultegra 8-speed bar end shifters can switch between index and friction shifting. I purchased them in April. Shimano has no reason to discontinue this feature, and I don't expect that they will. It's pretty unusual for Rivendell to goof on the specs they mention for the products they sell, but they got it wrong this time.

As kind of a (non) interesting sidenote, Shimano's bar end and downtube shifters are, so far as I know, the only indexed shifter sets they make anymore without front indexing. This, to my mind, is a very good thing! I only wish that rest of their shifters had an option for front friction. Oh well.
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Old 08-19-06, 07:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grolby
As kind of a (non) interesting sidenote, Shimano's bar end and downtube shifters are, so far as I know, the only indexed shifter sets they make anymore without front indexing. This, to my mind, is a very good thing! I only wish that rest of their shifters had an option for front friction. Oh well.
Well, they still make indexed downtube shifters as well Dura-Ace only. I'm pretty sure those are friction front.

Though I just can't think of any reason WHY normal people would choose downtube over bar-end or STI. Apparently Lance last year used a downtube front shifter on uphill stages to save a few grams...
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Old 08-19-06, 08:47 PM   #17
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Yes, but I have a Bike Friday that had the 8 spd shifters and the front is the one that is switchable. I just removed them the other night. Rivendall website is not incorrect. It could be that they switched this at some time but my FD shifter is definitely the switchable one.
I believe you can get them both ways so OP should just be aware that they might work and might not.

Kenal0

Last edited by Kenal0; 08-19-06 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 08-20-06, 04:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getgonegoing
Stock ultegra bar end shifter on a 1999 trek 520, shifting stock 8 speed cassette. Can the 8 speed be changed for a 9 speed and still use the same shifter?

Also will the Deore XT SGS derailleur be able to handle a 34 rear by 46 front combo?

Thanks
You need to buy new shifters. But you can ease the installation by unscrewing the rear shifter from it's base in the handle bar. Disconect the cable from the rear der also. Then take the new rear lever and swap it for the old 8 speed. Hook up the cables and you saved yourself having to do 2 sides and retape the bars.

If this was a Campy you swap out gears in about 30 minutes for $10, I did. Good luck

Tim
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