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  1. #1
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Shimano six speed cassette hubs?

    I see these once in a while on eBay. I've seen both road and mtb versions. They sell cheap because nobody wants them. I can't find any mention of them on the Harris site or anywhere else. Can somebody tell me about them? What is the spacing on the road hubs? I know the mtn hubs are spaced 130mm so perhaps the road hubs are spaced 126mm. What I have in mind is to keep the 126mm spacing and change the freehub body to a seven speed. I found some wheelsets online with 105 six speed rear cassette hubs and Superbe Pro front hubs for a great price and I want to use them with my seven speed parts on a Fuji mixte I'm building. I can respace the Fuji to 130 if I have to.

    Here's a link to a six speed Deore XT:

    http://tinyurl.com/lyal2

    I can't find the wheelsets right now. I don't feel well. I think I ate some bad Chinese food.

  2. #2
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    some of the road hubs are 126mm, like the shimano 600 ax ones I have (6 speed, freehub, threaded sprocket acts as lockring) and I guess the later ones are 130mm. However the freehub body (on mine at least) is not the same as later freehub bodies - it isn't held on with a 10mm hex bolt but rather it's a press on. A puller tool is used to extract it from the hub body.

    - Joel

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    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    I'd thought that freehubs were produced starting at 7-speed systems. I don't think there ever was a 6-speed cassette hub.

    Old MTN hubs were spaced at 130mm, 7-speed and 8/9/10-speed MTB hubs are spaced at 135mm.
    Old road hubs (6-speed freewheel, 7-speed freewheel or cassette) were spaced 126mm, newer 8/9/10 speed road hubs are spaced at 130mm.

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    dura-ace EX series, 1978:

    http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/...-5/Page+08.jpg

    This is all fresh in my mind because I'm building a bike with that groupset at the moment.

    - Joel

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtdrop
    I see these once in a while on eBay. I've seen both road and mtb versions. They sell cheap because nobody wants them. I can't find any mention of them on the Harris site or anywhere else. Can somebody tell me about them? What is the spacing on the road hubs? I know the mtn hubs are spaced 130mm so perhaps the road hubs are spaced 126mm. What I have in mind is to keep the 126mm spacing and change the freehub body to a seven speed. I found some wheelsets online with 105 six speed rear cassette hubs and Superbe Pro front hubs for a great price and I want to use them with my seven speed parts on a Fuji mixte I'm building. I can respace the Fuji to 130 if I have to.

    Here's a link to a six speed Deore XT:

    http://tinyurl.com/lyal2

    I can't find the wheelsets right now. I don't feel well. I think I ate some bad Chinese food.
    Hope this helps, http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/hubs-deore-mt60.html

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    I don't feel well. I think I ate some bad Chinese food.
    There is no such thing as bad Chinese food.

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    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider
    There is no such thing as bad Chinese food.
    Except in the U.S. I feel like running for the border.

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    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery
    I'd thought that freehubs were produced starting at 7-speed systems. I don't think there ever was a 6-speed cassette hub.

    Old MTN hubs were spaced at 130mm, 7-speed and 8/9/10-speed MTB hubs are spaced at 135mm.
    Old road hubs (6-speed freewheel, 7-speed freewheel or cassette) were spaced 126mm, newer 8/9/10 speed road hubs are spaced at 130mm.
    You deny their existence even after I posted a link to one?

    Thanks everyone else for the help. It looks to me like my idea will work. I just hope I can find those wheelsets again.

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    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was surprised by their existence. Your link wasn't convincing at all - it was on eBay and sellers get confused all the time there. The link that tomacropod posted about the 6-speed Dura-Ace cassette hub from 1978, showed that 6-speed cassette hubs did indeed exist. I still doubt that the one on eBay was 6-speed, although it's certainly possible.

    That said, if you've got a frame with 126mm spacing, and want to keep the spacing exactly as-is, you should get a 7-speed rear cassette hub. They're common enough and you can still buy cassettes for them.

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    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery
    Yeah, I was surprised by their existence. Your link wasn't convincing at all - it was on eBay and sellers get confused all the time there. The link that tomacropod posted about the 6-speed Dura-Ace cassette hub from 1978, showed that 6-speed cassette hubs did indeed exist. I still doubt that the one on eBay was 6-speed, although it's certainly possible.

    That said, if you've got a frame with 126mm spacing, and want to keep the spacing exactly as-is, you should get a 7-speed rear cassette hub. They're common enough and you can still buy cassettes for them.
    That seller is an old bike shop in Long Beach, CA. They know what they're talking about.

    The point of getting the six speed wheelset is that I can get get it cheap, as I previously stated. I have the parts I'll need to convert it to seven speed. Seven speed wheelsets are getting to be hard to find, especially new.

    I think you could use seven speed shifters an a six speed cassette, since they both have standard spacing.

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    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomacropod
    some of the road hubs are 126mm, like the shimano 600 ax ones I have (6 speed, freehub, threaded sprocket acts as lockring) and I guess the later ones are 130mm. However the freehub body (on mine at least) is not the same as later freehub bodies - it isn't held on with a 10mm hex bolt but rather it's a press on. A puller tool is used to extract it from the hub body.

    - Joel
    I'm hoping that I won't get the press on-type. I'll ask before I order.

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    Senior Member Steev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery
    I don't think there ever was a 6-speed cassette hub.
    Uniglide freehubs. I have or had one (need to check the junk box). The earlier ones press fitted, later ones used the 10mm Allen bolt. Mine used the bolt, I'm going to build up a spare wheel with that hub and a hyperglide freehub. 126 mm spacing IIRC.

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    Steev is correct. They even did 5 speed freehubs. Some of the 6 speed freehubs were 120 mm OLN (rarely).

  14. #14
    Senior Member masi61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steev
    Uniglide freehubs. I have or had one (need to check the junk box). The earlier ones press fitted, later ones used the 10mm Allen bolt. Mine used the bolt, I'm going to build up a spare wheel with that hub and a hyperglide freehub. 126 mm spacing IIRC.
    I have a 6 speed uniglide 105 series hubset on my bike and have used it for years with no problem. I really like the simplicity of using just 6 cogs. Its really easy to set up for indexing. Mine has the 10mm allen bolt. I kind of wore out the cassette so when I got a new cassette I upgraded to 7 speed cassette body to go with a new 7 speed uniglide cassette (hard to come by) and I'm currently using MAVIC 7 speed downtube levers with some success. The 6 speed set up once adjusted worked a lot closer to "PERFECT" than the 7 speed. I've been tweaking and adjusting the 7 speed for the last 2 months, its getting better, but if you can live with just 6 cogs, run with it - you 're more likely to find 6 speed index shifters extra cheap on ebay, the bidding on the 7 speed stuff gets kind of competetive.

  15. #15
    ride, paint, ride simplify's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masi61
    I upgraded to 7 speed cassette body to go with a new 7 speed uniglide cassette (hard to come by) and I'm currently using MAVIC 7 speed downtube levers with some success. The 6 speed set up once adjusted worked a lot closer to "PERFECT" than the 7 speed. I've been tweaking and adjusting the 7 speed for the last 2 months
    I wonder if you're having trouble dialing in the 7-speed shifting because you're using Mavic shifters instead of Shimano. In my experience, the 7-speed Shimano indexed shifting is flawless and as easy to adjust as the 6-speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtdrop
    I think you could use seven speed shifters an a six speed cassette, since they both have standard spacing.
    You would have to use the seven-speed shifters in friction mode. The spacing is enough different that the indexing would not work properly.
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    I have a set of Shimano 600 Uniglide cassette hubs (w. Mavic GP4 rims), and they have a 6-speed cassette on them (which is very worn now). They don't have the 10mm Allen bolt to remove the freehub, so I assume I have the press-on type. The hubs seem very well made, and the parts look and feel better quality than some newer Ultegra (2004) hubs I have.

    Can anyone tell me if it is possible to remove the freehub from the old 600's and put on a Hyperglide 9-spd freehub so I can keep these as a spare pair of wheels? I guess this will also necessitate re-dishing the wheel if it's possible? I'm assuming it isn't because they're the press-on type, but I'm hoping I might be surprised!

  18. #18
    Senior Member masi61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Fear
    I have a set of Shimano 600 Uniglide cassette hubs (w. Mavic GP4 rims), and they have a 6-speed cassette on them (which is very worn now). They don't have the 10mm Allen bolt to remove the freehub, so I assume I have the press-on type. The hubs seem very well made, and the parts look and feel better quality than some newer Ultegra (2004) hubs I have.

    Can anyone tell me if it is possible to remove the freehub from the old 600's and put on a Hyperglide 9-spd freehub so I can keep these as a spare pair of wheels? I guess this will also necessitate re-dishing the wheel if it's possible? I'm assuming it isn't because they're the press-on type, but I'm hoping I might be surprised!
    You're not talking about a freewheel are you? Shimano 600 hubs of this vintage were more common with freewheels. If this is the case you just need a freewheel remover tool. No, you would not be able to put a hyperglide 9 cassette body on there in either case. If it turns out you do have the cassette, you maybe need the special cassette puller that I saw referenced on the Harris Cyclery/Sheldon Brown site. If this special freehub body is what you have, all I can say is that it should be educational. You might just clean up the cassette body (either on or off the hub), drizzle some lube in there if its dry, reassemble, then start surfing ebay for some new old stock 6 speed shimano cassette to replace your worn out one. Good luck.

  19. #19
    Senior Member masi61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawkd
    I wonder if you're having trouble dialing in the 7-speed shifting because you're using Mavic shifters instead of Shimano. In my experience, the 7-speed Shimano indexed shifting is flawless and as easy to adjust as the 6-speed.
    I thought that too, but I believe the Mavics are spaced for Shimano. I've got them dialed in about 95% now. I had to loctite the screw for the shifter, install a new chain, redish the wheel one more time, ride lots more miles, sometimes in the rain, clean the whole drivetrain a couple more times when it got dirty etc... Actually these Mavic indexing shifters are cool because they have hard click stops that reference the next gear but also like five degrees of wiggle room where you can pull up slightly past the click if that cog is being a little obstinant.

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    It is definitely a 6-speed cassette, and not a freewheel (I was surprised too given its apparent age). I can see the splined freehub underneath, and the uniglide threads on the outside end of the splines. I'm reluctant to carry on cycling with it as the teeth on the 2nd/3rd/4th and 5th cogs are all worn, almost down to a 'v' shaped point, whereas the 1st and 6th are both nice and square.

    I understand from Sheldon Brown's site that I could simply buy some Hyperglide sprockets, file off the large spline from those and use my existing 12 tooth Uniglide sprocket as the locking sprocket. Have I interpreted that correctly?

    Final question - what would happen using it with 9-speed Dura Ace shifters - presumably the indexing would be all out, but it would be possible to friction shift?

    Many thanks for the help!

    Mark

  21. #21
    Senior Member masi61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Fear
    It is definitely a 6-speed cassette, and not a freewheel (I was surprised too given its apparent age). I can see the splined freehub underneath, and the uniglide threads on the outside end of the splines. I'm reluctant to carry on cycling with it as the teeth on the 2nd/3rd/4th and 5th cogs are all worn, almost down to a 'v' shaped point, whereas the 1st and 6th are both nice and square.

    I understand from Sheldon Brown's site that I could simply buy some Hyperglide sprockets, file off the large spline from those and use my existing 12 tooth Uniglide sprocket as the locking sprocket. Have I interpreted that correctly?

    Final question - what would happen using it with 9-speed Dura Ace shifters - presumably the indexing would be all out, but it would be possible to friction shift?

    Many thanks for the help!

    Mark
    Go ahead and remove the cassette. This will allow you to inspect everything better. All you need are 2 chainwhips. I have one Park Tool one, and one "Nashbar" house brand. You can even make your own chain whips with aluminum or steel bar stock and your old worn out chain. Anyway, the lockring cog just unscrews counter clockwise, then the whole thing (very elegantly) just slides right off the splines. I think that filing the hyperglide sprockets sounds fine. You'll want to re-use your old spacers though to preserve the correct 6 speed index spacing. Which shift levers are you using? Do you not like your current ones. Are you thinking of using Dura Ace 9 speed brifters or down tube or bar-end levers? I guess my question on that is, WHY? Yeah the down tube 9 speed levers should have a friction mode, but unless you already have them or can get them for free or something, why not try to correctly index the shifting? If you type 6 speed into ebay often enough, you can probably get some vintage shift levers that index a 6 speed fine and are more to your liking.

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    Sorry - I should have explained better!

    I have a new (well new to me - got them second hand on eBay) pair of Mavic CXP33 clincher rims (got fed up with tubulars) on Ultegra 6500 hubs, on which I have put a 9-speed Ultegra cassette, and will use with a brand new pair of 9-speed Dura Ace downtube shifters - I was too tight to shell out for new 9-speed brifters when I'm currently only 'dipping my toe back in the water' after 12 or so years off my bike through laziness.

    The GP4/Shimano 600 Uniglide combo are my old wheels, which are missing a few spokes and could generally do with some TLC, but they are nice wheels so I don't want to simply throw them away. I was thinking that I could sort the worn cogs out, put in some new spokes and true them up, and use them as a spare wheelset. That obviously means I'll need to use a 6-speed cassette with the rest of the bike rigged for my primary 9-speed wheels, so I won't want to be meddling with derailleur adjustments too much if I have it all trimmed up for those.

    If I make it through the winter and am still taking it seriously, I plan to buy a whole new rig next spring with a properly integrated groupset etc - I just want what I have at hand to get me through to then.

    Hope that makes more sense and you don't think I'm raving mad any more!

  23. #23
    Senior Member masi61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Fear
    Sorry - I should have explained better!

    I have a new (well new to me - got them second hand on eBay) pair of Mavic CXP33 clincher rims (got fed up with tubulars) on Ultegra 6500 hubs, on which I have put a 9-speed Ultegra cassette, and will use with a brand new pair of 9-speed Dura Ace downtube shifters - I was too tight to shell out for new 9-speed brifters when I'm currently only 'dipping my toe back in the water' after 12 or so years off my bike through laziness.

    The GP4/Shimano 600 Uniglide combo are my old wheels, which are missing a few spokes and could generally do with some TLC, but they are nice wheels so I don't want to simply throw them away. I was thinking that I could sort the worn cogs out, put in some new spokes and true them up, and use them as a spare wheelset. That obviously means I'll need to use a 6-speed cassette with the rest of the bike rigged for my primary 9-speed wheels, so I won't want to be meddling with derailleur adjustments too much if I have it all trimmed up for those.

    If I make it through the winter and am still taking it seriously, I plan to buy a whole new rig next spring with a properly integrated groupset etc - I just want what I have at hand to get me through to then.

    Hope that makes more sense and you don't think I'm raving mad any more!
    O.K. Mark. Thanks for some clarification. More answers unfortunately lead to more questions. So you've got an awesome new clincher wheelset. That's sweet. And you realize these are spaced 130 mm at the rear dropouts and that you're old set will be spaced 126 mm. Which frame are you using? Do the new wheels fit into your frame? If you're current frame is 126 mm at the rear triangle you would have to convert it to 130mm. There are lots of old threads on this subject. I like my classic steel road bikes and choose not to mess with success. If you're wanting to swap the Ultegra 6500's back and forth with the old Shimano 600's you're not exactly talking interchangeability. Ideally for me a back up wheelset for a bike should swap in and out as quickly as possible. Yes you can use your 9 speed down tube shifters in friction mode on your 6 speed cluster O.K. as far as I know. We kind of need to know the details of your frame. It sounds like, right now you've got incomplete versions of some old school and new tech components. If you're getting back into riding seriously after 12 years, here's what I would recommend: designate the Ultegra 6500 6 speed bits to an entirely new bike. Keep a notebook, visit websites, this forum, bike catalogs, join yer local cycling club and keep your eyes open like you've been doing. Next: deal with your old steed through its jaded eyeglasses - give it the upgrade it needs but in a retro 1984 sort of sensibility. Get those GP4/Uniglides the TLC they need, new spokes, true tension and clean, new modern tires and tubes and rimstrips. Get your fresh cassette cogs on there - go back to ebay - the stuff's out there - its your job to locate it. Keep the paradigm intact, ride the heck out of it and expand you repertoire back to the Ultegra 6500 bike. This can be done over a longer period of time. Just my opinion, good luck.

  24. #24
    ride, paint, ride simplify's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Fear
    I understand from Sheldon Brown's site that I could simply buy some Hyperglide sprockets, file off the large spline from those and use my existing 12 tooth Uniglide sprocket as the locking sprocket. Have I interpreted that correctly?

    Final question - what would happen using it with 9-speed Dura Ace shifters - presumably the indexing would be all out, but it would be possible to friction shift?
    Yes, you have interpreted that correctly, indeed. If your current 12-tooth cog is in decent shape, just continue to use that as the locking cog. You can adapt the large spline on HG cogs to make them fit your Uniglide hub, just as Sheldon describes.

    If your 9-speed shifters have friction capability (these are downtube levers?) then yes indeed, you can use friction mode to shift your six-speed cogset.

    As for the spacing of your rear dropouts to accommodate either 126 or 130 OLD hubs, if your bike is steel, then you probably will not need to bend or otherwise permanently change the rear triangle. The difference is just 2mm per side, and in all but the most rigid of steel rear triangles, you can spread the spacing that much when you're installing the 130-length rear hub. It will just be a bit more of a struggle, but not that difficult. Then when you switch back to the 126, the springiness of the steel in your chainstays and seatstays will return it to the 126 spacing.

    Don't forget to adjust the High and Low screws on your derailleur when you switch between 6-speed and 9-speed.
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