Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34
  1. #1
    Mettle to the Pedals Dewbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Indiana
    My Bikes
    Giant Cypress hyrbrid, Giant OCR2, Giant OCRc2, Giant Suede (wife's)
    Posts
    713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    AGGGH!!! I screwed up my wheel! HELP!

    Well, I just finished my intermediate bike repair class and decided to true up the rear wheel on my Giant OCR2. After a frustrating hour I've gone from having a wheel with a tiny wobble to having one that's so whopper-jawed that it won't even spin between the brake pads. I've also successfully rounded several nipples to the point that I can't even get a set of pliers to turn them.

    So.......(sheesh)........
    1. Is there any chance that the nipples on this bike are backwards threaded or am I just cognitively challenged enough that I'm turning them the wrong way?

    2. Can I buy new nipples and if so, where?

    3. Should I give up and take it back to the LBS and have them rebuild the wheel or take another stab at it after I've cooled my heels and head for a while?
    2008 Giant FCR3 (kitted up for touring)
    2006 Giant OCRc2 full-Carbon (for the sheer pleasure of riding)
    2005 Fuji MTB (for the snowy and muddy days)
    2007 Schwinn 7 Speed Alloy Cruiser (For getting to the Dairy Queen in style!)

    http://www.HowILost100Pounds.com

  2. #2
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,708
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewbert
    Well, I just finished my intermediate bike repair class and decided to true up the rear wheel on my Giant OCR2. After a frustrating hour I've gone from having a wheel with a tiny wobble to having one that's so whopper-jawed that it won't even spin between the brake pads. I've also successfully rounded several nipples to the point that I can't even get a set of pliers to turn them.

    So.......(sheesh)........
    1. Is there any chance that the nipples on this bike are backwards threaded or am I just cognitively challenged enough that I'm turning them the wrong way?

    2. Can I buy new nipples and if so, where?

    3. Should I give up and take it back to the LBS and have them rebuild the wheel or take another stab at it after I've cooled my heels and head for a while?
    1. Possibly cognitively challenged. The nipples all turn the same way, but it does depend from which direction you view them. From the top (inside the rim) they turn clockwise to tighten. So use your screwdriver to turn that way. From outside the rim, turn them counterclockwise (the opposite direction) with the spoke-key to tighten them. If I am not concentrating, I can get confused, too.

    2. Yes, bikeshops have nipples. Buy a heap, just in case. They also usually come with new spokes. Take one of the originals along to ensure you get the right length of nipple.

    3. Possibly take it to the LBS, but instead try loosening off all the spokes, replace the rounded off nipples (they will come off easier when all the tension goes from the other spokes in the wheel) and start again. Be patient. Remember the principles. Refer to Sheldon Brown's website and print off a guide copy of his wheel-building page and have it beside you. Once you get over which way to turn the nipples, you should be right.

  3. #3
    It's an old photo Boss Moniker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Entropia
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R500, Specialized Hardrock
    Posts
    774
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Read up on wheel truing online. Nothing is a substitute for experience, so I'd try it on a junk bike (pick one up somewhere) before you do it on your dream machine. Here's what I know:

    1. Yes, in a way.. looking down on the rim from the hub (along spokes, not looking at the tread of the tire), you need to turn the nipple counter-clockwise to tighten it. They aren't reverse threaded, but you are turning the "bolt" from the opposite side.

    2. Yeah, try http://www.webcyclery.com/home.php?cat=361 . If you can't true it, don't try rebuilding it (I presume this is what you wanted them for? Or did you round one or two off?).

    3. Well, definitely don't try to rebuild it yourself.. and your LBS might charge you a lot if it needs to be rebuilt, but I kind of don't think it does.

    EDIT: beat me to it.. I took a while to post that
    Quote Originally Posted by dutret View Post
    Just because I'm not angry anymore doesn't mean I don't think bossmoniker and every other hipster **** I see riding around on aerowheels isn't a piece of **** thats only use is to be an easy target for ridicule.

  4. #4
    ride, paint, ride simplify's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R300 Caad2
    Posts
    1,202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't give up! As Rowan mentioned, take the tension down and start over, basically. Once you have several spokes out of whack and things get as messed up as it sounds like they are now, the best thing to do is de-tension the whole wheel and start again. Look for major problems in the rim when it is detensioned, like dips or bends. Then follow the basic principles to bring it into true and roundness as you bring up the tension. This is a learning process, and you are learning, so give yourself lots of time and lots of slack if it doesn't go well. If you start to get a bit cross-eyed or frustrated, put it aside and come back to it tomorrow. It's all about the journey. You will gain confidence and be proud of yourself when you bring that wheel back to roundness and true-ness, rather than admitting defeat. Once you accept the nature of the process, it becomes almost zen-like. Meditative and relaxing.

    Here's something that helped me so much, I never again had a moment's doubt about which way to turn a nipple. Think of the spoke and nipple as a jar and lid. When the nipple is at the top of the wheel, it is just like a lid on a jar of peanut butter, and the spoke is the jar. So you turn the nipple righty-tighty, and lefty-loosey, just like a lid on a jar. Always at the *top* of the wheel. You would have problems with a jar lid too, if the jar were upside down, so always turn your jar rightside up--that is, have the nipple end at the top of the wheel. Then you'll know which way to turn it.

    Edit--I just looked at your site (congratulations on your weight loss!!) and saw the photo of your Giant OCR2, and that's a very low spoke count. That makes this process quite a bit more challenging, but the principles are the same. Give it a try, bringing the tension up slowly, because you'll need to be pretty sure of your spoke tension. You could just get it as close as possible and then have your LBS or local wheelbuilder check your work.
    Last edited by simplify; 09-23-06 at 04:49 PM.
    No car. No TV. Three bikes.

  5. #5
    Senior Member thomson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,332
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You have been given excellent advice. I just want to add that you may want to leave your pliers out of the game and use the proper tool. Bicycle fasteners tend to be on the delicate side to keep the weight down.

    Big kudos on the weight loss!!

  6. #6
    MADE IN HONG KONG
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    My Bikes
    some but not enough
    Posts
    1,763
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have always found that replacing one or 2 spokes or nips to be harder than relacing the whole thing....its just me.

    But have to agree that it may be best to get professional help. then learn to true and build on another wheel. Its easier to start w a clean sheet of paper . Plus, it will not keep you from riding because your only wheel is kinky
    If you are not having any fun, it's all your fault

  7. #7
    Curmudgeon Wil Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Nausea, New Hamster
    My Bikes
    (see http://wildavis.smugmug.com/Bikes) Bianchi Veloce (2005), Nishiki Cascade (1992), Schwinn Super Sport (1983)
    Posts
    1,572
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It sounds like you're at the point where you're making things worse, so… you can always loosen all the nipples (one turn at a time) so that there's just one thread showing on each spoke. Now, assuming that the spokes are the correct length, this gives you a starting point. From there, tension, true, stress-relieve, tension, true, stress-relieve, tension, true, stress-relieve, check-dishing, tension, true, stress-relieve, tension, true, stress-relieve, check-dishing… repeat until satisfied.

    Oh, by the way - the first step in truing a wheel is to put a spot of oil on each nipple where it touches the rim.

    Good Luck!

    - Wil
    "………………………" - Marcel Marceau

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    My Bikes
    Cervelo R3, Giant Squadron
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    One distortion at a time...

    I've found the best way to true is by working on one distortion at a time. Use a piece of chalk to mark where the rim begins to distort (i.e., go out of true), then rotate the wheel through the distortion until it ends - mark the rim there too. Now count the number of spokes in between the chalk marks. Adjust the middle spoke(s) the most, and adjust less and less as you move away from the centre of the distortion.

    For example, if there are 5 spokes between the chalkmarks thus: <chalkmark> [spoke 1] [spoke 2] [spoke 3] [spoke 4] [spoke 5] <chalkmark>. You might turn [spoke 3] 1/2 turn clockwise, [spoke 2] and [spoke 4] 1/4 turn counter-clockwise, and [spoke 1] and [spoke 5] 1/8 of a turn clockwise.

    Of course this presumes you know whether to tighten or loosen [spoke 3]. However, since spokes seldom tighten on their own, it's likely you'll need to tighten it. And since spoke nipples are normal right-hand threads, you tighten by turning clockwise.

    Wheel truing isn't too tough if you tackle one distortion at a time, use chalk (or other mark) to define your work area, and remember to make small adjustments. A good truing stand, one that's properly calibrated, helps. A dishing tool is also nice to have.

    One last thing. Worn wheel bearings can sometimes cause your wheel to look as though it's untrue. If you haven't changed your bearings in some time and/or have been carrying a heavy load, your wheel can wobble just like an untrue wheel. If you're convinced you're doing a good job truing your wheel, but it just won't get/stay true, try changing your wheel bearings.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    First, forget the stupid "righty-tighty/leftie-loosie" technique. Learn the "right-hand rule" for threading. Similar to electro-magnetism in physics. Grab the spoke in your right palm. Orient your thumb in the direction you want to move the nipple. Point your thumb towards the hub to tighten, towards the rim to loosen. Your fingers will then aim in the direction you want to spin the nipple.

    This will allow you to turn the nipple correctly if you're staring down from the rim or looking up from the hub, or looking at the wheel from the side.

  10. #10
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin (near TX)
    My Bikes
    rkwaki's porn collection
    Posts
    26,040
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you've got alloy nipples, get those *$#@-ing things off there. Brass is the way to go. Everything else oxidizes badly and makes for an unmaintainable wheel.

    Who cares about the weight of brass? I was tearing the crap out of a bunch of light wheelsets on the ATC ride in Austin today. 36H brass-nippled Deep Vs right here, brother. They're much blurrier than the lighter wheelsets

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Montreal
    My Bikes
    Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid
    Posts
    6,521
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The spoke tensiometer is one of the more expensive tools, but is well worth its cost even if you dont plan on building wheels. Wheels which are true when they are bearing no weight, will flex all over the place when loaded, if they dont have enough tension on them.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    beantown
    My Bikes
    '89 Specialized Hardrock Fixed Gear Commuter; 1984? Dawes Atlantis
    Posts
    697
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think anybody has mentioned this yet, but make sure you have the right sized spoke wrench.
    And when you get the replacement nipples make certain that they are the same size as your current ones,
    having different sized nipples on the same wheel is miserable.
    Remember, to be patient.
    Cool off for a day, then come back to it with conviction and a healthy respect for how easy it is to round off a nipple.
    One turn of one spoke at a time, then check, then move to the next spoke and repeat.

    Good luck

  13. #13
    Mettle to the Pedals Dewbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Indiana
    My Bikes
    Giant Cypress hyrbrid, Giant OCR2, Giant OCRc2, Giant Suede (wife's)
    Posts
    713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow--
    Thanks for all the great advice! I'm out of town this week but when I get back, I'll losen the spokes up, replace the nipples (at least the ones I've rounded) and give it another whirl!
    Thanks again!
    2008 Giant FCR3 (kitted up for touring)
    2006 Giant OCRc2 full-Carbon (for the sheer pleasure of riding)
    2005 Fuji MTB (for the snowy and muddy days)
    2007 Schwinn 7 Speed Alloy Cruiser (For getting to the Dairy Queen in style!)

    http://www.HowILost100Pounds.com

  14. #14
    Midwest Mechanic
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey Dewbert, where abouts in Central Indiana are you from? and what shop do you usually go to?
    I'm over just west of the airport, in myself.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,427
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    First, forget the stupid "righty-tighty/leftie-loosie" technique. Learn the "right-hand rule" for threading. Similar to electro-magnetism in physics. Grab the spoke in your right palm. Orient your thumb in the direction you want to move the nipple. Point your thumb towards the hub to tighten, towards the rim to loosen. Your fingers will then aim in the direction you want to spin the nipple.

    This will allow you to turn the nipple correctly if you're staring down from the rim or looking up from the hub, or looking at the wheel from the side.
    Yep, this is by far the best method for any fastener. Works especially well when you are under a car and you have to loosen or tighten something in an awkward location.

    The only time it ever failed me was on the bolt holding the serp belt tensioner on my Saab. I broke the bolt and was scratching my head. Learned the bolt is left hand threaded! The new one had all kinds of markings saying it was LH, the old one had no markings. On this bolt, I use the left hand rule and it works like a charm!
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

  16. #16
    ride, paint, ride simplify's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R300 Caad2
    Posts
    1,202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    Learn the "right-hand rule" for threading. Similar to electro-magnetism in physics. Grab the spoke in your right palm. Orient your thumb in the direction you want to move the nipple.
    Brilliant! I've never heard this before. Thank you!
    No car. No TV. Three bikes.

  17. #17
    Scott n4zou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    2,393
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Something else to do is drop by your local thrift store(s) and purchase several bicycles and practice on them before you go mucking about with a real wheel. That’s how I got started. Later you can build a few to give away or strip and sort the different materials and sell them for scrap and actually make a few bucks.

  18. #18
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    My Bikes
    Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid
    Posts
    10,485
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    First, forget the stupid "righty-tighty/leftie-loosie" technique. Learn the "right-hand rule" for threading. Similar to electro-magnetism in physics. Grab the spoke in your right palm. Orient your thumb in the direction you want to move the nipple. Point your thumb towards the hub to tighten, towards the rim to loosen. Your fingers will then aim in the direction you want to spin the nipple.
    There is an easier way to remember the correct direction.

    When turning the nipple imagine that you are putting a lid (the nipple) on a jar (the spoke). The spoke threads (jar opening) points towards the rim.

    If you think about the problem like this, you don't have to think of spokes as threaded backwards.

    BTW, don't give up. You have simply incurred an educational expense. I guarantee you won't make that same mistake again.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,398
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have done this before myself. It's easy to forget which way you are going as you have to reverse your "direction" once the wheel is underneath you .

    I like the idea of using the right hand rule for threads.

  20. #20
    Si Senior dbg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Naperville, Illinois
    My Bikes
    Too Numerous (not)
    Posts
    2,329
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If it's really screwed up, loosen everything and start over again. Make sure you are using the right size spoke wrench (green, red, black). And you can always remove the tire and use a screw driver on the end of the nipples.
    David Green, Naperville, IL USA "The older I get, the better I used to be" --Lee Trevino

  21. #21
    Mettle to the Pedals Dewbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Indiana
    My Bikes
    Giant Cypress hyrbrid, Giant OCR2, Giant OCRc2, Giant Suede (wife's)
    Posts
    713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wildjim
    It's ok to make wheel truing mistakes if you can learn from your mistakes. But you do not seem to have a clue as to what went wrong so maybe it is best if you take the wheel to a professional. Perhaps they will let you watch the process.
    Well, I actually do know what went wrong. In fact, I just finished a class and have trued 3 wheels prior to this one. This one just got the best of me. You're right, too. I've learned a lot from this mistake. I'm sure I'll get it fixed up once I get some new nipples!
    2008 Giant FCR3 (kitted up for touring)
    2006 Giant OCRc2 full-Carbon (for the sheer pleasure of riding)
    2005 Fuji MTB (for the snowy and muddy days)
    2007 Schwinn 7 Speed Alloy Cruiser (For getting to the Dairy Queen in style!)

    http://www.HowILost100Pounds.com

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,089
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need a spoke wrench that holds all four sides of the nipple snuggly. Be sure the wrench is all of the way on the nipple before turning. A drop of light oil on each nipple can save you a lot of frustration.
    Nothing wrong with using aluminum alloy nipples, they're on the best wheels.

    Al

  23. #23
    Mettle to the Pedals Dewbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Indiana
    My Bikes
    Giant Cypress hyrbrid, Giant OCR2, Giant OCRc2, Giant Suede (wife's)
    Posts
    713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kmo7882
    Hey Dewbert, where abouts in Central Indiana are you from? and what shop do you usually go to?
    I'm over just west of the airport, in myself.
    I'm in Danville and I usually go to BGI northside. It's close to my office.
    2008 Giant FCR3 (kitted up for touring)
    2006 Giant OCRc2 full-Carbon (for the sheer pleasure of riding)
    2005 Fuji MTB (for the snowy and muddy days)
    2007 Schwinn 7 Speed Alloy Cruiser (For getting to the Dairy Queen in style!)

    http://www.HowILost100Pounds.com

  24. #24
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,708
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943
    You need a spoke wrench that holds all four sides of the nipple snuggly. Be sure the wrench is all of the way on the nipple before turning. A drop of light oil on each nipple can save you a lot of frustration.
    Nothing wrong with using aluminum alloy nipples, they're on the best wheels.

    Al
    Three sides. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to get the spoke wrench past the spoke. Unless you're ahead of Park in the spoke wrench development stakes.

  25. #25
    Mettle to the Pedals Dewbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Indiana
    My Bikes
    Giant Cypress hyrbrid, Giant OCR2, Giant OCRc2, Giant Suede (wife's)
    Posts
    713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, I'm pleased to update the group with a success story. I went to the LBS, bought a new spoke wrench and picked up some extra nipples. In the end, one of the nipples was damaged so badly that it wouldn't even turn with vise grips. So, I ended up taking all the spokes loose and pushing the damaged nipple backwards through the wheel. At this point, the wheel was pretty much dissasembled. I used the other wheel as a guide and rebuilt the thing and I'm glad to say that it's both true and round at this point. I'm going to readjust my back shifter after lunch and my bike will be back on the road this afternoon.

    Thanks for all the advice and everyone was right. This has been a tremendous learning experience. In the end I understand much more about my bike and I'm more confident in messing around with the thing!

    Thanks again.
    Dewbert
    2008 Giant FCR3 (kitted up for touring)
    2006 Giant OCRc2 full-Carbon (for the sheer pleasure of riding)
    2005 Fuji MTB (for the snowy and muddy days)
    2007 Schwinn 7 Speed Alloy Cruiser (For getting to the Dairy Queen in style!)

    http://www.HowILost100Pounds.com

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •