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Old 10-05-06, 11:33 AM   #1
Philatio
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jb weld for water bottle cage?

I'm thinking about JB welding either the brazeons for mounting a cage or just the cage itself. Any thoughts?
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Old 10-05-06, 12:01 PM   #2
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Uhh, why?
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Old 10-05-06, 12:48 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DMF
Uhh, why?
I assume because his frame doesn't have water-bottle braze-ons.

I don't know much about JB Weld so I can't make direct recommendations, but I think it's more effective metal-to-metal than it is metal-to-paint (and paint could chip or peel off later anyway).
On the other hand, jb-welding a metal cage to painted frame could mean easier time of getting the cage off later if you want.

There are also clamps you can get that will hold bottle cages to a frame - but you need a cage with exposed tabs, like this one from Performance:
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Old 10-05-06, 12:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philatio
I'm thinking about JB welding either the brazeons for mounting a cage or just the cage itself. Any thoughts?
I just finished installing a set of riv-nuts, sometimes known as nut-serts, depending on the brand, on a customer's aluminum frame. It was the first time I had atempted this, and I was a little apprehensive, but it went without a hitch, and the bottle cage is now neatly and securely mounted.
I don't know if I would recommend this for a high zoot,thin wall double butted tube set, but for a low end frame it seems to be a good option.
Dan Burkhart
www.boomerbicycle.ca
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Old 10-05-06, 01:00 PM   #5
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yea I have a couple spots on my recumbent I'd like some bottles that have no pre existing brazeons. I've seen those clamps (and the other alternatives, like the velcro deals and whatnot) and I guess basically I have some jb weld and some cages but none of the clamps or alternatives.

I'm not worried about the finish on the bike at all, either in terms of damage done while in use of the mount or in removal if it ever comes to that. Essentially I'm just wondering if anyone has done it before, and if it will hold over time.

I think the bond is strong enough for the relatively tame loads applied by a bottle, but I don't know how it holds over time, in the sun, rain, etc.

Thanks
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Old 10-05-06, 01:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
I just finished installing a set of riv-nuts, sometimes known as nut-serts, depending on the brand, on a customer's aluminum frame. It was the first time I had atempted this, and I was a little apprehensive, but it went without a hitch, and the bottle cage is now neatly and securely mounted.
I don't know if I would recommend this for a high zoot,thin wall double butted tube set, but for a low end frame it seems to be a good option.
Dan Burkhart
www.boomerbicycle.ca
I've seen those, but as I have no experience drilling metal (much less the tools to do so) I'd rather avoid it if I can. Thanks for the idea though
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Old 10-05-06, 01:05 PM   #7
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I don't know how well JB Weld holds. Is your frame steel or aluminum? If it's aluminum, I'd sand off the paint at the point where you're going to attach the bottle cages. With steel, you could do the same but then maybe prime-and-paint over the area to keep rust from starting there.
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Old 10-05-06, 01:14 PM   #8
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It's steel. You mean I should paint all around the cage once I apply the weld? I guess it wouldn't make sense to sand off my paint and primer, then reprime, then repaint huh?
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Old 10-05-06, 01:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Philatio
It's steel. You mean I should paint all around the cage once I apply the weld? I guess it wouldn't make sense to sand off my paint and primer, then reprime, then repaint huh?
Except that I think JB Weld will hold better for metal-to-metal contact. I think that's what it's designed for. I may be wrong.

Edit: okay, I'm wrong on this - JB Weld claims to bond to pretty much anything. Here's their website.
That said, my reasoning partly depended on better bonding with metal-to-metal contact, but not entirely. Because paint can chip and peel off of metal, JB weld between bottle cage and paint has another layer of weakness compared to JB weld between bottle cage and unpainted metal.

But I'd say you're best off just cleaning the painted surface, presuming it's a solid paint job that's not compromised by rust, and JB Welding the bottle cage directly to the painted frame.
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Old 10-05-06, 02:01 PM   #10
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I used to use JB weld quite a lot, I once JB welded a metal vacuum line that lead from a carbureteur to an exhaust manifold, it held for years. However, since you typically have to wiggle a water bottle out of a cage with a fair amount of force, I think the JB weld would crack and let go for this application. FWIW, I think JB weld used to be stronger than it is now, maybe they've taken some "dangerous" ingredient out of it or something...........The Zefal Gizmo clamps are awesome, very sturdy and clean looking, too. I'd go that route-
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Old 10-05-06, 02:04 PM   #11
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My steel frame Centurion did not have a 2nd water bottle cage mount which I need in the winter to hold my front light battery.

Last winter I used 3M double sided tape and stuck on a cage (tape entirely consealed under metal flange) I put two tiewraps around for extra security. This went thru many significant temp changes and rainy water baths. I removed the tiewraps after 2mo. (planning on taking cage off) and the tape held amazingly well, so I didn't. I used it for another 2mo. without the tiewraps, then it took a lot of effort and prying to get the tape unstuck.

This winter I had a friend help me add two riv-nuts which required drilling two holes in the steel frame and using a special rivet type tool to install them. They are holding up just fine and have the benefit that I can remove the cage whenever I want. They are flush to the frame too which is nice.

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Old 10-05-06, 02:19 PM   #12
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Are these riv-nuts something that can be put in with a pop-rivet tool.....or is it more specialized?

thanks
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Old 10-05-06, 02:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
Are these riv-nuts something that can be put in with a pop-rivet tool.....or is it more specialized?

thanks
Looks the same, but specialized for the riv-nuts. The riv-nut threads onto the tip of the tool to hold it, prior to it being squeezed in place.
Al
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Old 10-05-06, 02:41 PM   #14
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I am leery of using JB-Weld on a bike frame for a bracket for above reasons (hard but brittle adhesion.)

I don't know how much it would cost, but if you have to have a permanent job put in place, maybe have someone with a padded vise drill holes and pop in some rivnuts, perhaps using JB-Weld around the rivnut as a poor-man's brazing after the rivnuts are put in (to keep water from seeping past the joint to rust inside the frame.) I get concerned about frame strength and possible stress fractures/splits around the joints. Are clamp based water bottle bracket mounts not an option?

As an added bonus, when your water bottle bracket wears out or goes out of style, its much easier to replace... just two bolts instead of a major frame job.

Of course a clamp like this http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/WC3002 or http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/ACH2OSYS/WC3050 [1] may be the best solution.

More clamp options: http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/ACH2OSYS

(The second one I mentioned which allows two bottles to hang from the seat post looks very tempting for me... I'm glad I looked this up.)

Last edited by mlts22; 10-05-06 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 10-05-06, 04:44 PM   #15
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Use small screw clamps (hoseclamps) and the performance type bottle cages pictured above. If you are finicky about your bike paint, cover the clamp tail (band) with heat shrink tubing. That will protect the paint. A little electrical tape on the back of the screw housing and you are in business. bk
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Old 10-05-06, 05:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkaapcke
Use small screw clamps (hoseclamps) and the performance type bottle cages pictured above. If you are finicky about your bike paint, cover the clamp tail (band) with heat shrink tubing. That will protect the paint. A little electrical tape on the back of the screw housing and you are in business. bk
Ditto on that. You can even get clamps that are plain metal bands that just have two tabs with screw holes. You screw the two tabs together to tighten the clamp. Those would look better than regular worm-screw drive hoseclamps.

If you want to see the biggest variety of hoseclamps you've ever seen, go to http://www.mcmaster.com/, and do a search.
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Old 10-05-06, 11:38 PM   #17
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Why not invest in a double water bottle hanger that attaches to the seatpost, such as the profile design cage?
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Old 10-06-06, 12:09 AM   #18
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I'm not worried about the finish on the bike at all, either in terms of damage done while in use of the mount or in removal if it ever comes to that. Essentially I'm just wondering if anyone has done it before, and if it will hold over time.
If you aren't worried about the finish (ie: you have a rattle-can handy) then how about brazing/silver soldering on a boss?

I just brazed on two of these downtube shifter bosses

onto my new Urban Assualt® Fuji with custom Banshee® bars

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Old 10-06-06, 07:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
I just finished installing a set of riv-nuts, sometimes known as nut-serts, depending on the brand, on a customer's aluminum frame. It was the first time I had atempted this, and I was a little apprehensive, but it went without a hitch, and the bottle cage is now neatly and securely mounted.
I don't know if I would recommend this for a high zoot,thin wall double butted tube set, but for a low end frame it seems to be a good option.
Dan Burkhart
www.boomerbicycle.ca
This is best way. Get a few sets of the inserts that are basically a threaded rivet, drill your frame where you want the cage to mount insert the rivet and tighten using either the proper tool or a long screw with an extra nut hold the head of the screw steady, tighten the nut and the rivet will mushroom in the frame tube...and you have a "factory" mount bottle cage
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Old 10-12-06, 11:49 PM   #20
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heh i know jb weld works if used right... just use a ton of the stuff, dont use it like its made of gold...
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