zeeg

I thought I had licked this problem by carefully aligning my brakes before each ride, but apparently not. Looking at my brake pads, they are so close to the tires there is zero margin of error in aligning them. On three occasions I've flatted or shredded my tires by having them rubbing into my tire as I brake.

The brakes are already fully extended, and obviously sometimes come into contact with the tires. My neighbor has a low end Trek(not sure which model, mine is a two month Trek 1000), and his brakes go much farther down and aren't even lowered all the way yet. I am obviously going to take it into the shop to have it looked at but I thought I'd post to get some advice first. I have no idea what the problem is, everything looks fine except for the fact the brake pads are too high with no ability to lower them more. Any ideas?

moxfyre

What kind of brakes are these? What kind of wheels and tires? The solution is often not to LOWER the brake pads, but to lower the ANGLE at which they strike the rims. This way they'll clear the tire. But more info on the type of brake and wheels will help!

operator

Er why not? It seems perfectly clear from his post that his current calipers do not have enough reach for his wheels.

Solution: Longer reach calipers

moxfyre

Yeah, but it's a 2 month old bike. If it's stock, then it should be possible to adjust them correctly and something is clearly wrong!! If not, then I want to know what combination of brakes/tires/rims he's using

zeeg

They are whatever is stock on Trek 1000 2006's. I don't see why they'd be different. Angling isn't going to help as they don't actually go low enough. Anyhow is adding longer reach calipers an easy fix?

moxfyre

Yeah, it'll definitely do the trick. However, I think that, given it's only 2 months old, you oughta take it back to the shop you bought it from and demand that they fix it; either by showing you that it can be properly adjusted, or by replacing the brakes. I'd be amazed if Trek spec'd insufficiently long brakes on the bike, but I've seen stupider things done before.

Hopefully the shop will fix the problem AND show you what's misadjusted. If not, you can get a decent pair of long-reach caliper brakes from Nashbar for about $20. You'd need allen wrenches and patience to be able to install them yourself

zeeg

Yes, that was my plan of attack. I'm hoping to see if I can get perhaps at least a discount on some tires or tubes as well as I've gone through a couple at what seems to be the LBS fault. Thanks for the advice everyone.

operator

It does seem very odd that the proper reach brakes are not installed on a new bike from a bike shop.

Al1943

Yeah, something is not right, Trek should fix this for you and replace your tires and tubes also. Don't budge an inch until Trek and the dealer make it right.

Al

BikeWise1

Get thee to thy dealer! This a known issue. Trek has been trying to make the frames accept a larger tire, should the customer desire, but they occasionally missed on certain frame sizes. Trek will send your dealer a long reach version of the same brake you have.

I totally agree that the bike builder should have caught it. They owe you a tire and tube. But only one. It's not their fault you didn't seek a remedy from them the first time you noticed it.

This is what warranties are for. When you notice a problem on a new bike take it back or at least call and let them know!

well biked

Wow, that sounds dangerous.

TallRider

True. But on the other hand, I'm glad that Trek is trying to design frames that will take larger tires while still using regular (short) reach calipers. It's high time manufacturers pay attention to stuff like this. Another example of practical elements of Rivendell's design philosophy making it to the big companies.
Also, I know that Surly designed their Pacer frame (regular road bike frame) to work with regular (short) reach calipers, but at the maximum of their reach capabilities, so you can still use a 28c tire with fenders, 32c without. It's always struck me as ridiculous that road bikes using short-reach brakes aren't designed to use the full reach of the calipers, limiting you to 25c tires (which is the case with all three of my road bikes, although I suspect they'd take 28c tires if mounted on a wider rim - 28c tires mounted on a narrow rim will end up wtih a slightly larger outside diameter than if the same tires were mounted on a narrow rim).

BikeWise1

No more dangerous than a mechanic who misses any other step in a bike build. You'd be amazed at the flaws in even the nicest bikes. Your only line of defense is a good pair of eyes and gobs of experience.

What Trek doesn't want is for Joe Noob to stick a 28 on a "racing" frame and have the wheel lock because a spoke broke and the bridge was too close to the top of the tire. They missed by a couple of millimeters. No biggie. Again, the mech should've noticed...

moxfyre

+1!!! The inability to accept large tires is one of the main things that makes so many road bikes unsuitable for conversion to use. It's great if big manufacturers are getting clued in on this.

operator

I don't think they designed the Trek1000 to be raced at any rate.

BikeWise1

Well, it is a "racing geometry" bike with the same frame as the 1200. I've seen lots at the tris in the area being "raced" alongside those freaking Windsor and Motobecane POS's!

moxfyre

What's wrong with the Windsor/Motobecane/Bikesdirect bikes? I mean, the components are perfectly good from what I can tell, and the frames appear decent too. Or the Trek 1000 for that matter?

I mean, they're pretty nice entry level road bikes, I think. Though you get more bang for your buck by getting something in the Tiagra or 105 range.

BikeWise1

Let's start with the fact that there is no real usable warranty. Should you want something checked for warranty, you must remove the part and send it to them. If they choose not to warranty it, you are SOL. These bikes show up at my door (it's a college town-you buy underwear online, so why not a bike?), partially and incorrectly reassembled by a guy with a pair of pliers and a crescent wrench who thinks I should fix it for free because it just needs "a quick tweak". The bikesdirect site is a master of building value into cheap Chinese commodity frames by, for example, stating that the Sora equipped bike has an MSRP of $895 , but they'll sell it to you at 50% off. It is implied that your LBS is making gobs on these kinds of bikes because we, too could sell that cheap if we weren't so greedy! A lowly Trek 1000 costs me more than the retail of bikesdirect's Sora bike. They can do this because they have very few warranties to honor, little overhead, and profit by selling you the illusion of a great deal. What you gained by feeling good about apparently saving money, you lose in a positive relationship with your local wrench.

By far the saddest thing to me, as someone who enjoys a well-tuned machine, is that every one of these I've encountered at charity events where I was wrenching, were, without exception, poorly adjusted and no fun to ride. I guess since they are now charged for what we would do free on our customer's bikes, they are too cheap to bother...I don't know. People are being sold a "thing" for "less" rather than a wonderful ride on a properly tuned machine. They think they are experiencing all that cycling has to offer. And that is at the core of why I loath them.

Apologies for the OT.

moxfyre

No, it's good to hear! I had no personal experience with the Bikesdirect stuff, but had heard a couple of favorable reviews here on BF. I did know about their deceptive pricing, but had no idea about their frames and poor assembly.

I was thinking a Bikesdirect bike might be a good way for me to get an Ultegra-level bike that I can afford, given that I'm a good mechanic. They sell a bike that's pretty much full-Ultegra 10 speed for around $1400, and I don't really care if it's 2005/2006/2007 parts frankly. But if they're that badly assembled I'll have to think twice. You really think the Trek 1100 frame is of a better quality than the BD frames?

BikeWise1

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I am passionate about doing things right, and even if the bikesdirect builders do a meticulous job, we all know even the best bikes need regular love. This love can be nearly free, or it can cost lots over the lifespan if you can't DIY your i-net bike. This love is what gets short shrift with internet bikes because those sellers don't want you think you're going to need the regular attentions of a wrench wielder, whether it be the rider or a shop. They want the buyer to feel like they are the hassle-free alternative. They have acquired the names of once revered marques in the hope of creating an atmosphere of value. "Motobecane? Oh yeah, I had one when I was in college-it was awesome. They're French right?" And Windsor and Dawes from jolly old England. A lot like Schwinn and Wal*Mart isn't it?

And to answer your question, I don't know how the i-net bikes are, but generally Trek's frames, even their Chinese-built ones are pretty much dead on for alignment, with decent welds and nice straight stays. They're not too light to last, unlike Bianchi's low end AL bikes. There's that lifetime warranty, too.

well biked

No, I'd say sending a bike out the door with the brakes set so that the pads hit the tires is unusually dangerous, and inexcusable for Trek to have "missed by a couple of millimeters" on their spec for the bike and for the person who assembled the bike it's particularly inexcusable. You mention Joe Noob; heck Joe Noob might think the brakes are supposed to make the bike stop by having the brakes rub against the tires .........When my brother-in-law ordered one of the GT I-Drive bikes a few years ago, he was so excited when the bike shop called him saying it had come in. I went with him to the shop to pick it up, and when we got there the bike shop owner (who was a friend and riding buddy of ours) was shaking his head, he couldn't believe GT had specced the bike with a rear tire that, when inflated, had the side knobs wedged against the chainstays. That particular mistake, on GT's part, was stupid, but not dangerous-

TallRider

I think BikeWise1 was placing responsibility on the mechanic in the shop who assembled the bike. A problem coming from the manufacturer's initial assembly (and spec) should be caught in final assembly at the bike shop that sells the bike.

well biked

Me too, I said it was particularly inexcusable for the person who assembled the bike.

BikeWise1

Well mistakes do happen even on the finest rides. I still say that, yes, Trek built it wrong, but the whole reason they don't do internet sales is that the mechanics at their authorized dealers are intended to be their last line of defense. We're the first people in the whole chain that get to ride the finished product, so the onus is on us to make sure the bike is built to the proper spec before Joe Noob ever gets his paws on it! I can't tell you how often I am telling my young apprentices [Mr Miyagi]Use eye in head! Find what is problem![/Mr Miyagi] LOL. The bike is the hair, we are the comb!

zeeg

I'll probably take it in sometime today, but I didn't even realize the extent of the problem until it just happened on the front wheel a few days ago. Then I compared it to a neighbors bike, and saw how big the difference in clearance was. Originally I flatted a few times on the back tire because of this and thought it was just a normal flat. Then I was staying up in WI for a few days cycling when I needed a new tire. The LBS there figured out what the problem was. Until then I didn't even realize such a thing would happen especially on a new bike(sounds dumb in hindsight).

I got a new tire and carefully aligned the pads and wheel, and nothing has happened on the rear since. I think this is mostly because the rear brake pad is worn away at the area where it'll come into contact with the tires from the previous times it made contact. Put a new pad in there and you'll have the same problem. Until I get longer calipers I don't feel comfortable cycling on this bike.