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Old 11-30-06, 04:13 AM   #1
cs1
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Shimano Deore upgrade 7 to 9

I have a really nice Deore 7 speed group. I wanted to put it on a cross bike for a winter project with a set of barcon shifters. 7 speed barcons are hard to find. So, can I upgrade to 9 speed? Some say that the rear der has enough range to handle 9. I have never tried it so I can't tell. I would rather not use friction shifting, so that's not an option.

Tim
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Old 11-30-06, 07:15 AM   #2
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modern day deore IS a 9 speed groupset. it will work, no ifs ands or buts.

infact im more surprised a 7 speed bike came with deore ? unless its really old deore ?
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Old 11-30-06, 08:14 AM   #3
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One option would be to keep it seven speed and use Ultegra eight speed bar end shifters.

Sheldon Brown says:
"The 7-speed units are no longer available, but the 8-speed shifters actually work quite well with 7-speed cassettes, especially with modern rear derailers."

I don't know much about cyclocross, but I do know that seven speed rear wheels are stronger because they have less dish. It seems like that would be a good thing for cyclocross.
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Old 11-30-06, 08:25 AM   #4
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If you want to upgrade to 9 spd your old 7 spd der will work just fine. A new Deore rr der is not that much money in comparison to all the other parts you are going to have to buy to upgrade, so you may want to include it in the new package.
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Old 11-30-06, 09:36 AM   #5
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You can fit 8 cogs of a 9 speed cassette on your 7 speed hub. What I would do is get a MTB 9s cassette, drop the biggest cog, and slide them on. Use 9s barcons. This is the exact setup I use on my cross bike and it works really well. The 7s hub has way less wheel dish, making a stronger wheel.
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Old 11-30-06, 01:32 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the suggestions. It is an old group. I purchased the bike sometime in 1990 when Deore was the king of the MTB groups for Shimano. It has old style thumb shifters. The group isn't as pretty as my Campy Daytona but it just nevers fails. I want that kind of reliability on a cross bike for winter.


Tim
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Old 11-30-06, 01:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs1
Thanks for all the suggestions. It is an old group. I purchased the bike sometime in 1990 when Deore was the king of the MTB groups for Shimano. It has old style thumb shifters. The group isn't as pretty as my Campy Daytona but it just nevers fails. I want that kind of reliability on a cross bike for winter.


Tim
I have the same group on my city bike- which is just a reincarnation of my mountain bike from around the same period. Solid stuff. Still working flawlessly 15 years in!
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Old 11-30-06, 07:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_bRAD
I have the same group on my city bike- which is just a reincarnation of my mountain bike from around the same period. Solid stuff. Still working flawlessly 15 years in!
It really is amazing how well those old Shimano parts worked. I really don't think the newer version looks or functions nearly as well. Plus they're all painted instead of polished and anodized.

Tim
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Old 11-30-06, 08:29 PM   #9
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8-speed bar-end shifters work just great on a 7-speed cassette. That would save you the expense of a new wheel, new cassette, the more expensive 9-speed shifters, etc. I used 8-speed barcons to shift over a 7-speed cluster for three months or so, never had any problems. The only reason I'm not doing it still was the tragic death of the bike!
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Old 12-01-06, 04:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grolby
8-speed bar-end shifters work just great on a 7-speed cassette. That would save you the expense of a new wheel, new cassette, the more expensive 9-speed shifters, etc. I used 8-speed barcons to shift over a 7-speed cluster for three months or so, never had any problems. The only reason I'm not doing it still was the tragic death of the bike!
If that's true then 8 speed barcons might be the way to go. Used 7 speed barcons go for almost as much as new 8 speeds. Most of the time, they are in terrible condition. I always wondered why Shimano didn't put replaceable gears in their barcons like Campy does. It would make life easier.

Tim
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Old 12-01-06, 08:17 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs1
If that's true then 8 speed barcons might be the way to go. Used 7 speed barcons go for almost as much as new 8 speeds. Most of the time, they are in terrible condition. I always wondered why Shimano didn't put replaceable gears in their barcons like Campy does. It would make life easier.

Tim
It's true and I said it first. The Fuji I'm building up now is 7 speed Shimano 600 with 8 speed Ultegra bar end shifters mounted on Suntour thumbshifter mounts.
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Old 12-01-06, 01:04 PM   #12
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So are you running 8sp barcons indexed on a 7 sp casette? I didn't realize that the 8 sp spacing was the same as 7 sp (although it makes sense given the different sizes of the respective freehub bodies). If so I'm assuming that you just lock out the 8th position with the RD limit screws. Am I right?
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Old 12-01-06, 02:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mycoatl
So are you running 8sp barcons indexed on a 7 sp casette? I didn't realize that the 8 sp spacing was the same as 7 sp (although it makes sense given the different sizes of the respective freehub bodies). If so I'm assuming that you just lock out the 8th position with the RD limit screws. Am I right?
It's not the same, but it's close enough. See the quote from Sheldon Brown in my original post.

Yes.
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Old 12-01-06, 02:49 PM   #14
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Yeah, 8spd is 4.8 mm c-c 7 spd is 5mm. Close enough to work fine.
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Old 12-01-06, 02:53 PM   #15
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You can run any barcon in friction mode.
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Old 12-01-06, 08:05 PM   #16
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I wasn't satisfied with the 8 speed bar end shifters (barcon is a trademarked Suntour name) and 7 speed cassette combination when I was using a Sachs derailer, even though it's supposed to be Shimano compatible. I switched to a Shimano derailer and it works great. The front shifter is friction, so you can use any derailer you want to.

I've got mine mounted like this:
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Old 12-02-06, 05:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdrop
I wasn't satisfied with the 8 speed bar end shifters (barcon is a trademarked Suntour name) and 7 speed cassette combination when I was using a Sachs derailer, even though it's supposed to be Shimano compatible. I switched to a Shimano derailer and it works great. The front shifter is friction, so you can use any derailer you want to.

I've got mine mounted like this:
Dirtdrop: very nice looking setup. Can I ask why you didn't get Shimano thumbies? They are redilly available in 7 speed on ebay. It seems like it would be more expensive to get the SunTour shifters and mount Shimano barcons to them.

OTH, Shimano 7 speed barcons are getting expensive and hard to find. That's my dilema. Thanks for the input though. I like your SunTour idea. Kind of a poor man's solution to getting Paul Thumbie mounts.

Tim
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Old 12-02-06, 03:33 PM   #18
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XT level thumb shifters are not readily available and they go for ridiculously high prices on eBay. I looked for some at a price I was willing to pay for weeks before deciding to buy the used bar end shifters for $20. I already had the Suntour shifters. They came off of my MB-2.

I was also afraid that if I used the thumbshifters, I won't be able to get parts for them or replace them five years from now. It's at least a possibility with current production bar end shifters.

Besides, anybody can bolt on thumb shifters. I have something unique.
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Old 12-02-06, 06:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdrop
XT level thumb shifters are not readily available and they go for ridiculously high prices on eBay. I looked for some at a price I was willing to pay for weeks before deciding to buy the used bar end shifters for $20. I already had the Suntour shifters. They came off of my MB-2.

I was also afraid that if I used the thumbshifters, I won't be able to get parts for them or replace them five years from now. It's at least a possibility with current production bar end shifters.

Besides, anybody can bolt on thumb shifters. I have something unique.
XT thumbies and regular Deore always looked identical to me. Is there a difference. You are correct, the XT do go for ridiculous money.

Tim
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Old 12-02-06, 06:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cs1
XT thumbies and regular Deore always looked identical to me. Is there a difference. You are correct, the XT do go for ridiculous money.

Tim
Don't hold me to this, but I'm pretty sure "Deore" became XT shortly afterwards. Kind of like 600 vs ultegra.
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Old 12-02-06, 06:47 PM   #21
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IIRC, DX became Deore. Or was it the other way around?

+1 on using 8 speed bar end shifters on 7 speed cassettes. I've done that on a couple of bikes with no problems.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:52 PM   #22
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An option thus far unmentioned would be to go for a sora 7 speed sti shifter. They work ok, and are reasonably cheap, maybe cheaper than a 7 speed bar end shifter. I've not seen too many in the US, but they are extremely common on cheaper road bikes in Europe.
Dave
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Old 12-03-06, 04:46 AM   #23
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An option thus far unmentioned would be to go for a sora 7 speed sti shifter. They work ok, and are reasonably cheap, maybe cheaper than a 7 speed bar end shifter. I've not seen too many in the US, but they are extremely common on cheaper road bikes in Europe.
Dave
I have a set of RSX 7 speed brifters. I was going after a more retro look for this project. I've seen the Sora 7 speeds on ebay for $125 a pair NIB. That is way cheaper than any of the 9 speed Shimano brifters.

Tim
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