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Old 12-01-06, 07:25 PM   #1
TheMow
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Broken cassette. What are my options

I have a 8 speed suntour apII cassette. Went for a ride and my bottom gear broke tonight so i used the second to bottom gear to get home.
Im assuming that the cassette is not a servicable part and that i need a new one.
Are cassettes universal fits?
Also im 230lbs. Im guessing my weight was a major factor in breaking it. I really get on it during a good part of my rides. Ive been looking around and see 8 speeds varying in price from 30 to well over 200. Im just looking for something that will hold up. I ride maybe 20-30 miles a week on flat roads. I dont need any features except that its an 11 tooth at its lowest.
Whats a good route.
Also are there any special cassette tools needed to swap the old one out?
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Old 12-02-06, 06:55 AM   #2
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if you can put a suntour cassette on your freehub body than you have options go to your lbs wheel in hand ask for and 8 speed cassette with the same ratios and you will be riding in 10 minutes. There are specail tools like a remover and chain whip. Odds are if you buy it at a shop they won't charge you to put it on. I wouldn't see a problem with a shimano cassette at 20-30 miles a week you should be fine at the lower end of your price list. Keep in mind when you change your cassette it is always a good idea to change your chain.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMow
I have a 8 speed suntour apII cassette. Went for a ride and my bottom gear broke tonight so i used the second to bottom gear to get home.
Im assuming that the cassette is not a servicable part and that i need a new one.
Are cassettes universal fits?
Also im 230lbs. Im guessing my weight was a major factor in breaking it. I really get on it during a good part of my rides. Ive been looking around and see 8 speeds varying in price from 30 to well over 200. Im just looking for something that will hold up. I ride maybe 20-30 miles a week on flat roads. I dont need any features except that its an 11 tooth at its lowest.
Whats a good route.
Also are there any special cassette tools needed to swap the old one out?
To remove you need 2 chain whips: one to hold the cassette steady and the second to unthread the smallest lockring cog.
Of all the cogs that could break, I would think the 11 tooth cog would be most susceptible. You might have better luck finding a replacement for the single cog that broke - you'll have to do a lot of internet and bikeshop searching though til you score.
Finding a replacement APII 8 speed cassette is not going to be easy. This is the ONLY cassette that will work for your application. There's no reason to be even talking about any other 8 speed cassettes or what their prices are because they won't fit. These have been out of production for 15 years or more and thus are now rare. Check ebay on a regular basis - they're not going to come up very often but probably will eventually. If you give a little more information about which model of hub some BF members might be able to be of more assistance to you. Is it a mountain or road bike? The 8 speed mountain APII cassette had the outer 2 cogs threaded together. The road version only had the outer cog threaded - so there are 2 incompatible variants of the APII Powerflow cassette right there.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:22 AM   #4
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No other cassette would fit on that freehub body? Does it have a completely proprietary body size or spline design?

Anyhow, when I decided to get a cheap winter wheelset, I got a Shimano MegaRange cassette for $15. It was a take-off from a brand new bike. The buyer wanted a different cassette. I could have gotten a new cassette as cheap as $20 installed. I bought it and a cheap Alex Rim/Shimano Freehub wheel. I think total cost was $60 out the door after taxes. I've never been charged for installation of parts I buy at the shop.

Anyhow, your best and possibly cheapest bet is to hit the bike shop. They can remove the broken cassette, and see what needs to be done to fix it. If another cassette will fit, they might have one or know where to get one. Worst case scenario, you'll need a new hub or whole wheel.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:25 AM   #5
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As to your weight, I am 230 myself, any decent cassette with a chain in decent shape will hold up just fine.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:33 AM   #6
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As to your weight, I am 230 myself, any decent cassette with a chain in decent shape will hold up just fine.
You're missing the point. Not trying to be a jerk but the guy says he has a SunTour APII 8 speed cassette. NO other cassette will work for this application. We're not talking hyperglide or even uniglide here. I'm not aware that the cassette body can be swapped out for anything else either. If he cannot find a compatible replacement, then he'll need a new hub, and a new wheelbuild so he can then run Shimano standard which is probably not a bad idea for the long term but it is going to cost more $$. Body weight is not the issue here, its compatibility.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax0n
No other cassette would fit on that freehub body? Does it have a completely proprietary body size or spline design?

Anyhow, when I decided to get a cheap winter wheelset, I got a Shimano MegaRange cassette for $15. It was a take-off from a brand new bike. The buyer wanted a different cassette. I could have gotten a new cassette as cheap as $20 installed. I bought it and a cheap Alex Rim/Shimano Freehub wheel. I think total cost was $60 out the door after taxes. I've never been charged for installation of parts I buy at the shop.

Anyhow, your best and possibly cheapest bet is to hit the bike shop. They can remove the broken cassette, and see what needs to be done to fix it. If another cassette will fit, they might have one or know where to get one. Worst case scenario, you'll need a new hub or whole wheel.
Yes. It is a completely proprietary (obsolete) spline design on the cassette body.
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Old 12-02-06, 08:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masi61
To remove you need 2 chain whips: one to hold the cassette steady and the second to unthread the smallest lockring cog.
Of all the cogs that could break, I would think the 11 tooth cog would be most susceptible. You might have better luck finding a replacement for the single cog that broke - you'll have to do a lot of internet and bikeshop searching though til you score.
Finding a replacement APII 8 speed cassette is not going to be easy. This is the ONLY cassette that will work for your application. There's no reason to be even talking about any other 8 speed cassettes or what their prices are because they won't fit. These have been out of production for 15 years or more and thus are now rare. Check ebay on a regular basis - they're not going to come up very often but probably will eventually. If you give a little more information about which model of hub some BF members might be able to be of more assistance to you. Is it a mountain or road bike? The 8 speed mountain APII cassette had the outer 2 cogs threaded together. The road version only had the outer cog threaded - so there are 2 incompatible variants of the APII Powerflow cassette right there.
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Old 12-02-06, 11:32 AM   #9
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I'd call The Yellow Jersey. They specialize in old Suntour stuff. Just don't expect to find bargain prices.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/accu.html

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Old 12-02-06, 11:39 AM   #10
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If the suntour is that proprietary and rare, I'd eat the extra cost even if you can find a compatable cassette, and get a new wheel build up with a modern hub. If you plan to keep this bike for a while, your life would be sooo much easier.
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Old 12-02-06, 12:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ax0n
If the suntour is that proprietary and rare, I'd eat the extra cost even if you can find a compatable cassette, and get a new wheel build up with a modern hub. If you plan to keep this bike for a while, your life would be sooo much easier.
Maybe the original post-er could enter the fray here to explain in more detail what he's running with. If he has an XC-Pro mountain hub he could purchase this: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Old-Stock-11...QQcmdZViewItem.

This should work if that, indeed, is what he needs.
Knowing that the 11 tooth cog and the second cog are the threaded cogs, he should remember to go easy on those in the future to prevent a repeat of the broken cog scenario.
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Old 12-02-06, 12:22 PM   #12
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its a mountain bike. its a suntour hub nd8s is stamped on it in black. ill get a few pics posted
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Old 12-02-06, 12:43 PM   #13
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So let me get this straight. Suntour created a design in which only their cassettes would fit and not they dont make the parts.

Just got back from my lbs where i bought the bike. He looked around hopin he would have something but didnt. Anyway the 11 and 12 tooth cogs are threaded onto the cassette spline. I need a new 11 and 12 tooth assembly and ill be good to go. But i doubt ill have any luck find one. Any good guesses?

Last edited by TheMow; 12-02-06 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 12-02-06, 02:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by TheMow
So let me get this straight. Suntour created a design in which only their cassettes would fit and not they dont make the parts.

Just got back from my lbs where i bought the bike. He looked around hopin he would have something but didnt. Anyway the 11 and 12 tooth cogs are threaded onto the cassette spline. I need a new 11 and 12 tooth assembly and ill be good to go. But i doubt ill have any luck find one. Any good guesses?
Look at my hyperlink in reply #11. I'm 95% certain that, there is the item you need. You'll have to buy the whole cassette. If you type "Suntour cassette" into ebay several come up but that was the least expensive 8 speed one that will fit your requirements. You might want to act fast because there were only 2 left. I think another vendor had some but they were $75 each.
Suntour went out of business years ago. Back then the manufacturers were in a war to create the best indexing systems and Suntour lost everything. They're high quality parts. They're just not Shimano compatible. Suntour had their own cassette spline pattern (the first accushift-AP, isn't even compatible with yours- APII). Suntour cog spacing is unique to them as well. The smallest 2 cogs are like 0.2 mm wider spaced than the largest cogs - don't ask me why, it has something to do with the pull on the shift lever combined with the arc of the rear derailleur. It works alright if you use all the matching parts. If you're not willing to conform to this construct, this might be a good time to get a new drivetrain. Shimano stuff works better, is more uniform in operation, is more available, easier to set up, more customizable, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, I would have thought that other Suntour "experts" would have attempted to educate thee by now. Personally I would advise that if your other parts are sufficient, stay with the Suntour. You've got something unique that's high quality and will probably last another 10 years easily. Go and get that cassette, and continue educating yourself on bike mechanics from the helpful folks here.
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Old 12-03-06, 10:49 AM   #15
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Look at my hyperlink in reply #11. I'm 95% certain that, there is the item you need. You'll have to buy the whole cassette. If you type "Suntour cassette" into ebay several come up but that was the least expensive 8 speed one that will fit your requirements. You might want to act fast because there were only 2 left. I think another vendor had some but they were $75 each.
Suntour went out of business years ago. Back then the manufacturers were in a war to create the best indexing systems and Suntour lost everything. They're high quality parts. They're just not Shimano compatible. Suntour had their own cassette spline pattern (the first accushift-AP, isn't even compatible with yours- APII). Suntour cog spacing is unique to them as well. The smallest 2 cogs are like 0.2 mm wider spaced than the largest cogs - don't ask me why, it has something to do with the pull on the shift lever combined with the arc of the rear derailleur. It works alright if you use all the matching parts. If you're not willing to conform to this construct, this might be a good time to get a new drivetrain. Shimano stuff works better, is more uniform in operation, is more available, easier to set up, more customizable, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, I would have thought that other Suntour "experts" would have attempted to educate thee by now. Personally I would advise that if your other parts are sufficient, stay with the Suntour. You've got something unique that's high quality and will probably last another 10 years easily. Go and get that cassette, and continue educating yourself on bike mechanics from the helpful folks here.
Here's another cassette that will work. This one is in black and it's more expensive than the other. It does show a good photo of the outer double threaded together cogs: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Old-Stock-Su...QQcmdZViewItem.
Whoever this vendor is, also does a good job of documenting the products he sells. Its worth a look.
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