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Old 12-10-06, 10:46 PM   #1
brianappleby
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problem with cogs eating into freewheel, solution?

The cogs my 10-speed ultegra cassette are eating into the splines on the freewheel of my powertap-SL hub. They've dug in between 1-2 mm each on the 14-19t cogs. It's so bad that I need 2 chain whips to get the cogs to back out of the grooves they've created in order to remove them.

Is there a solution to this? I've noticed that ultegra cassettes only have the cogs contact every other spline on the shimano freewheel (weight savings?). Are there other brands in which the cogs contact the cassette at every spline? I assume the freewheel body is Al (weight savings?). Is it replaceable? Does anybody make a steel one? I've sent Saris an email asking if they'll sell one.

I hope I have my vocab. correct. When I say "freewheel", I mean the thing that clicks around and the cogs slide onto it. When I say "splines", I mean the raised portions on the freewheel that cause the cogs on the cassette to catch and create forward motion. Without the splines, the cassette would just spin around and I wouldn't go anywhere.

Any other ideas? Or corrections to my vocab?

Thanks
B.
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Old 12-10-06, 10:58 PM   #2
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How can you have both freewheel and cassette on one bike? Someone please explain me this.
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Old 12-10-06, 11:03 PM   #3
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He's talking about the cogs digging into the freehub body.

This is common with aluminum alloy freehub bodies; if that what yours is made of that's the problem.
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Old 12-10-06, 11:08 PM   #4
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Sorry Brian but nothing you say makes sense to me. How could anything eat into the splines? The splines are completely covered.
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Old 12-10-06, 11:28 PM   #5
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Sorry Brian but nothing you say makes sense to me. How could anything eat into the splines? The splines are completely covered.
rofl

are you serious?
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Old 12-10-06, 11:28 PM   #6
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Allow me to translate (but offer no advice since I don't know the answer).

He has a free-hub and a 10-speed Ultegra cassette. When he says spline, he means the "ridges" on the free-hub body that the tabs on the inside of the cassette push against to make the wheel "go."

On some of his cogs, the cassette cog tab has bitten into the ridge on free-hub body, making it a bugger to remove.

The question: Some of the ultegra cogs do not have a tab that engages each ridge. Are there compatible cassette brands that have a tab for each ridge?

Alt. question: can the free-hub body be replaced?

Hope that helps.
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Old 12-10-06, 11:34 PM   #7
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DogBoy, a very good restatement of the original problem.

Brian Appleby, it does indeed sound like you have an aluminum freehub as others have suggested. They are very prone to this kind of notching.

One way to avoid this problem is to have a cassette that is held together in one piece rather than with loose cogs, so that the force of the rotating cogs is distributed across the entire width of the freehub, rather than the ~4mm width of each cog. Most 8- and 9-speed Shimano-compatible cassettes come held together with a few rivets, which can be removed. I'm not sure if all the 10-speed cassettes are completely loose cogs or not, can anyone answer this?

In any case, the combination of loose cogs and aluminum freehub is a very bad one, as you're finding out.

PS- The freehub bodies *can* be replaced on all Shimano brand-name hubs, and on *some* other brands as well. They are ALL interchangeable in terms of their attachment to the hub, except pre-1997 Dura Ace and recent "Silent Clutch" hubs mostly used on commuter bikes (check www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#transplant to verify that). Last time I cecked, Dura Ace hubs are the only Shimano hubs with aluminum freehubs.

If you have one, you could replace the freehub with a 105 or Ultegra freehub, since those are made of steel last time I checked. Sure, they'll add ~100g or something, but the result will be a much longer-lasting freehub. A new Ultegra freehub is usually only $25 or something from Nashbar, and pretty darn easy to replace with just a 10mm hex wrench.

Last edited by moxfyre; 12-10-06 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 12-11-06, 04:04 AM   #8
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Have read similar issues on at least 2-3 occasions in the recent past and all with Shimano. I am wondering if this issue is more common with Shimano components? From a cause point of view, would this have something to do with inadequate tightening of the cassette lock ring?
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Old 12-11-06, 06:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianappleby
The cogs my 10-speed ultegra cassette are eating into the splines on the freewheel of my powertap-SL hub. They've dug in between 1-2 mm each on the 14-19t cogs. It's so bad that I need 2 chain whips to get the cogs to back out of the grooves they've created in order to remove them.

Is there a solution to this? I've noticed that ultegra cassettes only have the cogs contact every other spline on the shimano freewheel (weight savings?). Are there other brands in which the cogs contact the cassette at every spline? I assume the freewheel body is Al (weight savings?). Is it replaceable? Does anybody make a steel one? I've sent Saris an email asking if they'll sell one.

I hope I have my vocab. correct. When I say "freewheel", I mean the thing that clicks around and the cogs slide onto it. When I say "splines", I mean the raised portions on the freewheel that cause the cogs on the cassette to catch and create forward motion. Without the splines, the cassette would just spin around and I wouldn't go anywhere.

Any other ideas? Or corrections to my vocab?

Thanks
B.
The op has a powertap hub, that is a sort of powermeter thing and they are quite expensive. I doubt he would want to switch hubs. I dont recall if the freehub body is removeable or not. If it is, I would reccoment replacing it. Maby look at a 105 (?) cassette beause there is the possiblility it will be rivited or have a larger contact surface with the notches.
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Old 12-11-06, 07:42 AM   #10
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American Classic uses alloy free hubs. To protect theirs, they use these clips (for Ultegra, 105, and DuraAce cassettes):



Perhaps the OP can purchase the Ultegra clips from American Classic.

Their website is:

http://www.amclassic.com

Their contact page is here:

http://www.amclassic.com/contact.html
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Old 12-11-06, 07:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinbiker
The op has a powertap hub, that is a sort of powermeter thing and they are quite expensive. I doubt he would want to switch hubs. I dont recall if the freehub body is removeable or not. If it is, I would reccoment replacing it. Maby look at a 105 (?) cassette beause there is the possiblility it will be rivited or have a larger contact surface with the notches.
Wow... I totally missed that part. Why the heck do they make powertap hubs with aluminum freehub bodies? It's a big honkin instrumented hub... the longevity of the steel freehub would FAAAAR outweigh the slight weight improvement of the aluminum freehub.

I agree about replacing the cassette with a riveted one.
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Old 12-11-06, 07:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxfyre
Why the heck do they make powertap hubs with aluminum freehub bodies?
Because, if they had a steel freehub, they couldn't say that the PT hub adds "only" 200 grams over a standard Ultegra hub, as shown here:

Tune PowerTap 7005p Computer w/ Mavic Open Pro

Last edited by NoRacer; 12-11-06 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 12-11-06, 11:06 AM   #13
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does anybody know if this will work? It says 9-speed but I think I remember something about 9-speed hubs working fine with 10-speed cassettes.
Thanks.

Brian.
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Old 12-11-06, 11:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianappleby
does anybody know if this will work? It says 9-speed but I think I remember something about 9-speed hubs working fine with 10-speed cassettes.
Thanks.

Brian.
Brian, that freehub would work fine on any Shimano hub. A 10-speed cassette will work fine on an 8/9-speed freehub.

Unfortunately, most non-Shimano hubs don't attach to the freehub body in quite the same way, so it probably won't work with your Powertap hub. I think you should probably get in touch with the maker and ask them if you can buy a replacement steel freehub.
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Old 12-11-06, 12:19 PM   #15
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i got a response from PT. They'll send me another freehub for free, but they only have Alu. ones. I'm not jazzed on replacing my cassettes, so I'll check out the American Classic clip things. Those look useful if I can get someone to sell them to me without buying a wheel first.

Thanks for all the help,
B.
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Old 12-11-06, 09:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianappleby
i got a response from PT. They'll send me another freehub for free, but they only have Alu. ones. I'm not jazzed on replacing my cassettes, so I'll check out the American Classic clip things. Those look useful if I can get someone to sell them to me without buying a wheel first.

Thanks for all the help,
B.
Don't tell them anything except that you have a Shimano freehub on your wheel and you need the Ultegra clips to keep the cogs from cutting into the hub. They shouldn't sell you a wheel if they think that you already have one.
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Old 12-11-06, 09:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRacer
Don't tell them anything except that you have a Shimano freehub on your wheel and you need the Ultegra clips to keep the cogs from cutting into the hub. They shouldn't sell you a wheel if they think that you already have one.
+1... a very good tip
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Old 12-11-06, 10:50 PM   #18
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I'm not a fan of aluminum freehub bodies because of this reason. Since so many people buy wheel based on the total weight, manufactuers are almost forced to use aluminum freehubs if they want to sell product.

My favorite hubs are Shimano Dura Ace 9 speed since they have a titanium freehub body; fairly light and not prone to gouging.
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