HillRider

When a carbon fork has metal dropouts, like various Kestrel and Profile models, they are all metal and are inserted and bonded into the fork blades. Easton's SL-series forks have totally carbon dropouts with no metal of any kind and they are molded as one piece with the fork blades. That's one of the ways Easton gets their E90-SLX under an advertised (and real, I weighed two of them) 300 grams.

The original permise of the lawyers lips was to protect people who didn't use a qr skewer properly and thought it was a wing-nut. I've met a couple of these types myself, some were even pretty experienced riders, who had never been shown how to use a qr properly.

urbanknight

+1 I was thinking the same thing. We should all seek out this "CAT" organization and get rated. Meow!

Bekologist

not being a racer, i thought the acryonym was a UCI- approved acryonym.

i forget if CAT-1 or CAT-5 is highest, but he races at nationals and internationally as well.

I mention it anecdotally. QR failure/ lawyer lip removal can result in crashes, even among experienced riders. All you racer/lightweight freaks that are compelled, on your own or driven by the coolness/be like the rest of the crowd factor, (like the fixer,) to remove lawyer lips.

hey, go for it if it lubes your chain. Frustration over lawyer lips seems to be experienced mostly by gram-shaving, competitive gumbys. Get quicker at changing your tires if you want to see real improvements in your speed at changing a flat.

TallRider

That's hilarious!
CAT just stands for the UCI category of how good the racer, I'm also not sure which is highest. I don't think that CAT is an acronym. But is funny to mock the guy who loses his wheel (so long as he's not hurt) anyway.

As for my annoyance with lawyer lips, it's not a weight thing but rather the principle of an annoyance that has no purpose to be there beyond litigious ass-covering. It's probably not worth the time it took for me, but it didn't take me long...

CdCf

Well, that's not true. If you have disc brakes, for instance, they're likely life savers. And adding them afterwards is damn hard to do...


Backups are good, too. Would you fly on an airliner that had some of its backup systems removed because the pilot felt "they're only there to protect from stupid lawyers..."? Sure, 99.9999% of all flights will probably be just fine without the backup, but you can't know which flight you're on...

TallRider

True about disc brakes. But that's a whole different ballgame, and the original purpose of lawyer lips was litigious ass-covering. There's no chance that disc brakes would be used on my 1987 Centurion Ironman, for example. So in my case, filing them off of the Ironman's fork, I was getting rid of something that has no purpose beyond litigious ass-covering.

I understand the usefulness of the tabs, and I have also seen (as HillRider mentions above) a couple of experienced cyclists who didn't know how to operate a quick-release.

HillRider

CAT is short for USCF (United States Cycling Federation) "Category" with Cat 5 being the entry level and Cat 1 being the top of the amateur category rated heap. Above Cat 1, you get into National Team ranking and eventually to the pro ranks.

BTW, the UCI is the international sanctioning body for bicycle competition. The USCF is the US arm of the UCI.

As noted, many high level riders are strong and skilled athletes but very poor mechanics. That's why teams that have the resources have their own mechanics and don't let their riders work on the bikes.

same time

I ride my bike to work, and lock it up on an indoor rack. Remove the front wheel, place it next to the rear, u-lock everything to the rack. Open and close the QR five times per week.

At the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is fiddle with a QR skewer (or with an extra cable lock). Anything that streamlines my commute is worth it to me. The skewers are called "Quick" and should be just that.

Your point about the time it takes is valid, though - I've probably spent more time reading/writing in this thread than I saved by filing my lawyer tabs (dremel, ten minutes).

urbanknight

Sorry, we were just having a laugh at your expense. CAT is just short for the word "category", not an acronym or anything. You're pretty close actually. Category 1 is the best category without being a professional, and category 5 is a beginner.

Oh, and just to chime in my .02 on the OP, I'm hesitant to alter anything made of carbon fiber, but if the dropouts are made of metal, a mill file or angle grinder works fine. I personally don't care about 2 calculated twists to remove the wheel, but I'm also not racing anymore so the 1/2 second doesn't matter as much.

noisebeam

I don't have them on my 1984 Centurion and I actually would prefer if they were there. I so rarely remove the front wheel, mainly when the tire wears/ages out as front flats happen so infrequently.
I do know how to properly use a QR. I do check it before a ride. But I do forget, don't we all, especially after re-groups or short stops during a club ride, time like this when your bike may be bumped by another while filing up a water bottle.
Al

koine2002

Not to threadjack, but that centurion sure is pretty. I painted my Schwinn premis the same scheme.

kesroberts

I used to file mine off, but haven't recently. I know I won't ever do it again after the experiences I've had with the POS QRs on my wife's bike that had loosened on their own. (yes I replaced them.)

cnkjr

I have to remove my front wheel because I put it on a fork mounted roof rack. 3 days a week or so I put it on and take it off. Plus I'm a little bit like some others on this list. What is the point of a quick release if its not quick? Why not use a bolt on skewer?

As to the extra layer of safety issue, I think we all have to draw the line at how much risk we want to take in life. To be frank, I think I can reasonably control the risks of a QR coming off because it hasn't been properly tightened. That risk doesn't worry me. Now the risk of some touron in an SUV clipping me because he is too busy text messaging or talking on his phone or reading the headlines or whatever--that's a risk I worry about. But I haven't gotten off my bike or the roads yet.

waterrockets 

Real men make time to use angle grinders

...and I'm in the way upper %iles for wheel changing speed

CdCf

I had no idea people did that. My wheels only come off if I need to replace them or put on new tyres.

cyccommute 

I don't like them either but consider that if you file them off and then sell the bike, you could be opening yourself to liability issues if the bone head you sell it to doesn't understand quick releases. I'm not a lawyer but it's something I'd think about before I get out the grinder. Is the extra convenience worth your house?


Something esle worth considering is that the manufacturer may be able to get out from under liability for your fork if something goes wrong and it breaks...like a catastrophic failure of the blade or steer tube...not necessarily related to grinding the dropout. You did modify it after all.
(I do hate the stupid things as much as anyone...really )

waterrockets 

16 years and I've never sold a bike. I ride them into the ground, then they become single speeds

cyccommute 

Some people might want to sell their bikes...I hear there's a booming business over on Ebay ...and they might want to consider not removing the nubs. It's best to limit one's liability as much as possible. Being sued is great fun and all but when the judge says, "You have to pay X amount", all the fun goes right out the window

Zouf

Not only did his wheel fall off - it fell off multiple times. During one race. Did he get the concussion on the first instance (which may explain how he continued the race still QR-challenged), a latter instance (in which case he's a really lucky guy to lose his front wheel once or twice or ? times before finally getting a concussion), or before the race (which might explain the whole thing)?

Thank god for internet, we would miss on all this action otherwise.

TallRider

And the craziest part of it all: this guy apparently worked at a bike shop. As a fit guy, sure. but still it's surprising that he could have this happen to him. In absence of other information, I vote for the concussion before the race.

Bekologist, did this guy know his stuff mechanically?

ax0n

Meh. My sorrento has huge lawyer lips, I just know that 5 turns is the magic number. Remove the brake noodle, hold the nut, open the cam, spin the lever 'round one two three four five, lift the bike off the wheel, voila. Takes maybe 10 seconds on a bad day to pull my front wheel off.

Sounds like an aweful lot of trouble to save yourself a spin or two of the lever.

You'd have a better time convincing me of the weight savings than the time savings. Your bike, though. I couldn't care less what you do with it.

Bekologist

can't speak for the conditions surrounding the accident. just reporting it as i heard it. I think filing the lips off a fork is pretty over the top. I bet it makes it tough to get the bike on the car though....; what would Maynard Hershon think?

BTW I've got bikes without them, but use a bolt on axle. And I assert, if you're concerned with the time it takes to change a flat, get quicker at changing the tire. Those lawyer lips, they ain't no thang. but then again, I'm not obsessed with competition either.

genec

Seems to me the manufactures overlooked a rather important tidbit in the design and implimentation of disc brakes.

genec

Bek, bear in mind that some racers don't actually change the flats, but change whole wheels... in less time than it takes to spin a QR those 3 or 4 turns to compensate for something that "wasn't ever needed" until about 15 years ago.

None of my bikes has ever had "lips" and I have never had a wheel leave.

thomson

Anyone try these?
Quick Nuts

I have, they are pretty good if you have to remove the wheel a lot