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Old 12-26-06, 08:09 PM   #1
thegunlap
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Painting Problems

I have been trying to spray paint an old frame of mine and I have sanded it cleaned it primed it so on so on but the paint still scratches off extremely easy?? I was wondering what is the best method out what is best product to use (Iím trying to keep a budget so I can go professional) any suggestions?
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Old 12-26-06, 08:30 PM   #2
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How long have you left it to harden before testing scratching it? I usually leave it for at least two days, preferably long, and inside where the temperature is at least +15 deg C. In addition, are you using a solid colour or a metallic or metalflake one -- the metallic jobs tend to be quite soft for quite a while before finally hardening.
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Old 12-26-06, 09:49 PM   #3
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I have painted many frames. The only way to do it correctly is to strip the old paint from the frame. Zipp Strip works well and is available in most hardware stores. DuPont paint remover works best and is available at automotive paint suppliers. Make sure the frame is thouroughly washed after stripping and the let it dry completly. Then prime and paint. With proper application of paint and buffing very good results can be had with paint from spray cans.
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Old 12-26-06, 09:52 PM   #4
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Spray cans will never give as hard a finish as powder coat finish. I have found it is still soft no matter how long you let it cure.
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Old 12-26-06, 10:01 PM   #5
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Two things come to mind...
A) You used laquer. Never a good chioce for bike frames. or
B) You waited more than a day between primer and color.
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Old 12-26-06, 10:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman_15106
Spray cans will never give as hard a finish as powder coat finish. I have found it is still soft no matter how long you let it cure.
Maybe I am doing it all wrong then.
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Old 12-26-06, 10:05 PM   #7
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Get a 2 part paint
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Old 12-26-06, 10:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by George McClusky
Get a 2 part paint
Yeah, but that will likely blow the OP's budget!
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Old 12-26-06, 10:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman_15106
Spray cans will never give as hard a finish as powder coat finish.
Right you are!
But who has money & space for a powdercoating set-up?

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Originally Posted by oilman_15106
I have found it is still soft no matter how long you let it cure.
The either A) you did it wrong or B) you painted when it was TOO cold.
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Old 12-26-06, 10:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Deltron
Right you are!
But who has money & space for a powdercoating set-up?


The either A) you did it wrong or B) you painted when it was TOO cold.
Yep to the first bit. And I still can't afford $75-$150 for a powdercoater, if I could find one... and that compares to around $20 for a spray can job.

And yep to the second bit... it doesn't matter what the ambient air temp is, so long as the frame and paint are at a what you would regard as a comfortable room temperature. At least, that is my experience.

Also *thin* coats built up gradually are a key. Thick coats really will take a long time to harden and will be easy to scratch and chip until they go off (if they ever do).

Last edited by Rowan; 12-26-06 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 12-27-06, 01:44 AM   #11
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if you're not too fussed about colour you should be able to get a frame powder coated for way less than 75. closer to 20 in fact
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Old 12-27-06, 01:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooley
if you're not too fussed about colour you should be able to get a frame powder coated for way less than 75. closer to 20 in fact
No-one quoted $20 in a recent thread here. It was $75 as the going rate. And there was a thread somewhere else that went on forever about a bad powdercoating job.

Apart from anything else, I like the satisfaction of saying I did it myself. And my experience is that the rattle can jobs I've done have been as durable and scratch resistant as the finish of my bikes bought new.

Anyway, the OP is in the situation of doing it himself, and wants a remedy that I would presume he can pursue himself. I was just offering some reasons why his paint job may not have worked.
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Old 12-27-06, 09:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM4
I have painted many frames. The only way to do it correctly is to strip the old paint from the frame. Zipp Strip works well and is available in most hardware stores. DuPont paint remover works best and is available at automotive paint suppliers. Make sure the frame is thouroughly washed after stripping and the let it dry completly. Then prime and paint. With proper application of paint and buffing very good results can be had with paint from spray cans.
+1. Patience is a virtue. I generally let my final primer cure for at least a week and I wait at least a week after painting before I assemble the bike. I've got a bike with at least a couple of years on a rattle can paint job that doesn't have any nicks.
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Old 12-27-06, 10:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I generally let my final primer cure for at least a week
The primer can instructions say recoat within 2 hours OR wait at least 72 hours. So if you wait more than 72 hours, you would be better served to scuff the primer and then spray color. Or spray the color within the 2 hour window without scuffing.

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wait at least a week after painting before I assemble the bike.
Or two weeks even. Do a fingernail test first. If your fingernail can leave an impression, keep waiting. Otherwise your clamp-on front deraileur, etc, will become one with the frame. To test, pick an inconspicuous spot, like the drop-out, where the QR will clamp.
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Old 12-27-06, 10:38 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by dooley
if you're not too fussed about colour you should be able to get a frame powder coated for way less than 75. closer to 20 in fact
Have you actually had a frame powdercoated for $20? You state "in fact".
Please post the name of the powdercoater who will do a frame/fork for $20. Thanks!
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Old 12-27-06, 02:09 PM   #16
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Try my website for step-by-step advice if anyone is interested:

www.cycling-adventurer.net/how-to/paint-01.html

The project involved was a tricycle restoration (as a handmedown Christmas present for a family in a nearby town). It was done in the midst of a very cold winter, and the paint was applied in a garage where the ambient temperature was well below 0 deg C... but the paint and components were always at room temperature, of about 18 deg C.

Dr D's comments on a thread elsewhere about getting the sprayed surface "wet" and to join the paint passes into that "wetness" to obtain the gloss finish is a key. But also you need to watch that the paint doesn't become too thick, and particularly so around where the frame tubes join. Light coats and many of them seem to be very important.

Having painted in high temps (around 25-30 deg) and now low temps, I like the low temp approach as the spray doesn't dry off in mid air so much and result in excessive settling of overspray.

His advice about reading the instructions on the paint can for time between coats also is important. This can vary a lot between paint brands, as I found with the bike. And some *colours* I have found -- such as ocean blues -- seem to take forever to dry compared with other colours in the same brand (this happened with the trike project, but also other non-bike paint jobs I have done --maybe I am just unlucky with them).

You'll also find my experience on there about mixing paint brands, and in particular applicatin of metallic/metal colours (there is a definite art to spraying metallics, and I am not sure I have got it down pat, yet).
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Old 12-27-06, 08:12 PM   #17
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Here is another technique I use for getting a good finish from spray can paint. I allow the paint to cure for about 2 weeks. Do not reassemble the bike during this period. I then use an automotive wax, such as Turtle wax, and apply a moderate amount to one frame section at a time. You want to use firm pressure and continue to rub the the wax untill it dries and buffs out. DO NOT apply the wax and allow it to dry and then buff it off. Keep rubbing the wet wax untill it dries and buffs. This will give the paint a smooth finish. I have used this technique on many frames.
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Old 12-27-06, 08:22 PM   #18
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Ok well i actually painted over the original paint, and it scratched off so i completely striped it paint sanded, and primed then let dry for hafe a day then painted with color. i let it sit for another day and it still scratched so i left for school came back 2 WEEKS later and it still scratched off... i did not use laquor paint. As for power coating i like that but didn’t want to spend that kind of money if I’m going to get in the $70 rang i might as well dish out another $40 and get a professional to paint it with real paint
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Old 12-27-06, 08:26 PM   #19
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Just what sort of paint do you use?
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Old 12-27-06, 08:33 PM   #20
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Just what sort of paint do you use?
i used du pont car paint, then rust o liem
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Old 12-27-06, 08:37 PM   #21
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Hmmmm... not a good thing to mix brands and probably entirely different types of paints/thinners between primers and topcoats... it's likely they didn't like each other a-t a-l-l.
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Old 12-27-06, 08:40 PM   #22
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ooo no no i painted it 2 times
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Old 12-28-06, 12:36 AM   #23
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ooo no no i painted it 2 times
From what I can tell so far, ...you're back to square one!
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Old 12-28-06, 07:58 AM   #24
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From what I can tell so far, ...you're back to square one!
Heh, heh, heh! FWIW, don't think of it as time and money wasted because it hasn't been. Think of it as the cost of an education. Welcome to the school of hard knocks. Be glad that it's December because you've got the rest of winter to get it right.
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Old 12-28-06, 12:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dr.Deltron
Have you actually had a frame powdercoated for $20? You state "in fact".
Please post the name of the powdercoater who will do a frame/fork for $20. Thanks!
i don't know anyone who'll do it for $20, i'm in england. i do know people who've gotten frames done for £20, and generally speaking whatever costs a dollar stateside normally costs a pound over here. a frame and fork i had done in a special colour cost that much (£75) including bead blasting the old powder coat off and etching. which kind of backs up the pound for dollar thing.

no one mentioned forks.

i never said it would cost $20, i just said you'll able to get it for closer to that amount. and if you're gonna be picky about how i phrased it anything less than $47.50 counts.

if you go to a commercial powdercoaters, not one who advertises as doing bikes, get them to stick it in with the next batch of whatever they're doing, and do as much of the prep work as you can, like sticking old bolts and cups in threads, stripping the old paint clean off etc, you will be able to get it a lot cheaper
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