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Old 01-29-07, 04:42 PM   #1
lyeinyoureye
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What would seperate the tire from the bead?

A few minutes into my run to the hardware store today, my rear tire blew out. I figured it wasn't a big deal since I could toss/patch another tube, but as it turns out, the tube blew out where the tire tore off the bead. Does anyone know how this could happen? The tire had been on/off the rim a couple times because I had improperly put the tube in and had to patch a couple small tears, but nothing that would've gone through the sidewall. When I got th bike, the tires on the Araya 700c rims were 700-23c and the one that tore was 700-20c.

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Old 01-29-07, 05:03 PM   #2
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The only time I've done that was when I tried to get home with a slow leak but lost too much air, in other words, riding on a flat tire.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
A few minutes into my run to the hardware store today, my rear tire blew out. I figured it wasn't a big deal since I could toss/patch another tube, but as it turns out, the tube blew out where the tire tore off the bead. Does anyone know how this could happen? The tire had been on/off the rim a couple times because I had improperly put the tube in and had to patch a couple small tears, but nothing that would've gone through the sidewall. The tires on the bike were 700-23c and I was running 700-20c.
Could be a manufacturing defect. This happened once to me with an almost-new Panaracer Urbanmax tire (a model that I regard very highly otherwise). There was clearly a weak spot in the fabric around where the tube blew through and tore off the bead.

If this appears to be the case, I'd ask for a replacement. Performance Bike was good about replacing mine.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
A few minutes into my run to the hardware store today, my rear tire blew out. I figured it wasn't a big deal since I could toss/patch another tube, but as it turns out, the tube blew out where the tire tore off the bead. Does anyone know how this could happen? The tire had been on/off the rim a couple times because I had improperly put the tube in and had to patch a couple small tears, but nothing that would've gone through the sidewall. The tires on the bike were 700-23c and I was running 700-20c.
Were the tears around the sidewall failure? If so, there's your culprit. The tire is a pressure vessel. Any weakness in a pressure vessel is asking for failure. Try not to do anything that would cut the tire around the bead and, if you do, lesson learned.

If the tears are elsewhere, then it may be defective.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:17 PM   #5
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Considering I have at most, 50 miles on them, it must be. I ordered them over a year ago, but hopefully N45hbar will be accommodating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyccommute
Were the tears around the sidewall failure? If so, there's your culprit..
I don't think so. The sidewall is intact in the area, but the bottom edge of the tire tore out from the metal bead, all along the edge for a couple inches. Here's a better picture of the tear/separation. I should also add it couldn't have been the brake, since I haven't used the rear brake in the short time I've ridden on the tires, and I'm not sure how I could do that kind of damage with a plastic tire lever. It's like someone took a razor along the inside of the bead.

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Old 01-29-07, 05:22 PM   #6
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Could be any number of things.....(in no particular order)

1. Brake rubbed through it
2. Mis-installation
3. Bad tire
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Old 01-29-07, 05:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
Considering I have at most, 50 miles on them, it must be. I ordered them over a year ago, but hopefully N45hbar will be accommodating...
They are quite good about returns, in my experience. Just mark "defective" on the return form, write a brief note, and mark down that they should reimburse you for shipping.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:29 PM   #8
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Take a good look at your brakes. If they touch the tire sidewall even a tiny bit, that'll do what you describe. That's at least 10 times more likely than a manufacturing defect in the tire.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
Considering I have at most, 50 miles on them, it must be. I ordered them over a year ago, but hopefully N45hbar will be accommodating...


I don't think so. The sidewall is intact in the area, but the bottom edge of the tire tore out from the metal bead, all along the edge for a couple inches. Here's a better picture of the tear/separation. I should also add it couldn't have been the brake, since I haven't used the rear brake in the short time I've ridden on the tires, and I'm not sure how I could do that kind of damage with a plastic tire lever. It's like someone took a razor along the inside of the bead.
Check the inside of your rim for a burr.

Depending on how you use your tire levers, it's easy to damage the bead too. You have to put lots of force on the tire to get it off and I've sliced the rubber around the bead plenty with plastic levers. It does look like the rubber and fabric over the bead has been rubbed off. If the tires are tight, you may have damaged it in getting the tire on and off.

Or, it may just be a defective tire. See what the company says.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:00 PM   #10
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The funny thing about these tires was that they had bits of rubber/threads flake off ever since I pulled the out of the box. The bead on them looks worse than the old continentals that the bike came with which I've popped on and off more often than these. I figured that road tires were just really fragile, but I've had my mtb tires on and of twenty times more than these (two on the front, three on the back), as well as the old contis, without the rubber/threads flaking off... Is there any difference between older road/mtb and new road tires that would explain this?
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Old 01-29-07, 06:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim
Could be any number of things.....(in no particular order)

1. Brake rubbed through it
+1

Check your brake adjustment.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:15 PM   #12
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I don't see how it could be the brakes, the rear tire blew out, and I know I didn't use the rear brakes since I remounted it, and probably before that as well.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
The funny thing about these tires was that they had bits of rubber/threads flake off ever since I pulled the out of the box. The bead on them looks worse than the old continentals that the bike came with which I've popped on and off more often than these. I figured that road tires were just really fragile, but I've had my mtb tires on and of twenty times more than these (two on the front, three on the back), as well as the old contis, without the rubber/threads flaking off... Is there any difference between older road/mtb and new road tires that would explain this?
Let me ask you this...

sidewalls can tear out two ways:

1. sidewall tears a spec above the bead leaving the bead encased in tire material or....
2. casing tears off of bead exposing wire bead (tear is actualy below the bead)

1. would be a cut/rub/??
2. most likely user user error (trust me)
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Old 01-29-07, 06:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
The funny thing about these tires was that they had bits of rubber/threads flake off ever since I pulled the out of the box. The bead on them looks worse than the old continentals that the bike came with which I've popped on and off more often than these. I figured that road tires were just really fragile, but I've had my mtb tires on and of twenty times more than these (two on the front, three on the back), as well as the old contis, without the rubber/threads flaking off... Is there any difference between older road/mtb and new road tires that would explain this?
That picture is pretty blurry so it's hard to say, but to me it looks like the tire is just... well... OLD! When rubber is fresh and pliable it doesn't crack and flake off the bead like that. Maybe you got a tire that had been sitting on the shelf for ten years? I'd expect a free replacement out of that.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:27 PM   #15
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The only thing that doesn't make sense is how this never happened with my mtb bikes or the other road tires if it was user error. I've taken different sets of mtb tires on and off dozes of times, as well as the contis on and off a couple times, but the rubber/threads around the bead never flaked/pealed off and they never blew on me. What could I have done that would cause the entire area around the bead to flake/peal in a couple mountings? Are new road bike tires so sensitive they require silk encased tire levers?

I suppose a better question is, should I be able to pull the threads off of new tires and end up with rubber flaking off after a few mountings? Should new tires look like this?

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Old 01-29-07, 06:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
The only thing that doesn't make sense is how this never happened with my mtb bikes or the other road tires if it was user error. I've taken different sets of mtb tires on and off dozes of times, as well as the contis on and off a couple times, but the rubber/threads around the bead never flaked/pealed off and they never blew on me. What could I have done that would cause the entire area around the bead to flake/peal in a couple mountings? Are new road bike tires so sensitive they require silk encased tire levers?
I'm pretty darn sure it's NOT "user error". The bead is tucked under the rim, so it's pretty much impossible to cause it to become ragged and flaky... there's nothing it can be rubbing against.

Looks like a case of old rubber to me.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:41 PM   #17
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Aight. Looks like I need to find that order form. Thanks for the help!
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Old 01-29-07, 08:21 PM   #18
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Looks like user error to me in the way of mounting.
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Old 01-29-07, 08:57 PM   #19
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How so?
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Old 01-29-07, 09:04 PM   #20
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well, you already stated you improperly put tube back into tire. & i noticed a crease on sidewall (along with being torn from wire bead). like it was inflated with bead partially out of it's seat on rim. Just a wild guesstimation though
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Old 01-29-07, 09:16 PM   #21
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Oh no, I probably should have provided more info about that... There's no way the tire was inflated with the bead off of the rim. The two holes I had to patch came from pinching the tube when I was sliding the lip of the tire over the edge of the rim. So, when I tried to inflate it, I found it wouldn't hold any air. But the tire was never inflated with the bead off the rim. I'm just trying to cover my bases since I'd rather not return something I screwed up. However, none of my other tires have ever had bits of rubber flake off and expose threads. I can literally grab a few of the threads in the tire and pull them out, like pulling a thread from a shirt out, which I think is why the bead separated from the sidewall. It looks like it unraveled after enough rubber had flaked off... This is why I think it's just a bad tire (n45hbar discount), but would rather make sure I couldn't cut the sidewall off at the bead with a plastic tire lever or something equally weird, but maybe possible, and return something I f'ed up.
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Old 01-29-07, 09:25 PM   #22
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I didn't mean all the way off the rim. But anyways i would send it back,yep.
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Old 01-29-07, 09:27 PM   #23
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Old 01-30-07, 06:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_knob
Looks like user error to me in the way of mounting.

Yep...I agree.

If you used tire levers to install install the tires odds are you damaged the bead below the wire bead versus it tearing above.

When I earlier said, "trust, me I know" its because I've torn my share of beads using tire levers.

Post a clear picture. It doesnt need to be 'Hubble quality', just clear.
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Old 01-30-07, 01:15 PM   #25
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lyeinyoueye,

Is the failed tire a Vittoria model by chance?

I had a bead-sidewall failure problem several times with one paticular line of Vittorias (No problem with more recent products such as the Rubino pro) and also Hutchinson Excel tyres. The latter were notorious for this. Since I changed to Conti's for the commuter bike, no such problems.

As well as the other advice montioned, you may just have been unlucky, but be sure to ride with tires correctly inflated, as underinflation is likely to cause wear between the sidewall and wheel rim.

Cheers,

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