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  1. #1
    cs1
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    8 or 9 sp any advantage

    Is there any advantage to using 9 sp over 8 sp? Or, has Shimano obsoleted both with 10 sp? From personal experience, I found out that it was easier to sell off my old Campy 8 sp and upgrade to 10. Is Shimano going to be the same?

    Tim
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  2. #2
    Grumpy Old Bugga europa's Avatar
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    Yep. My new bike came with 9 speed and it would have cost me money to convert it to 8 speed

    The 8 speed setup uses a wider chain. I know one custom bike builder who recommends the 8 speed for touring on this basis - they last longer. Personally, while he may have a point, when you consider how long it takes to wear these components out in normal riding, is it much of an issue? (different when you're out the back of Bourke I know but when doing day trips from home ...)

    Upgrade your bike in the most efficient way practical, then dream up bogus reasons to tell your mates next time you're having a bull session in the shed.

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  3. #3
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by europa
    The 8 speed setup uses a wider chain. I know one custom bike builder who recommends the 8 speed for touring on this basis - they last longer. Personally, while he may have a point, when you consider how long it takes to wear these components out in normal riding, is it much of an issue? (different when you're out the back of Bourke I know but when doing day trips from home ...)
    Definitley, you would not want to be touring on a 10 speed chain. Not to mention the fact that they're stupidly expensive to replace.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

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    9-speed appears to be adequately durable. Witness the fact that 9-speed MTB components survive ghastly conditions routinely. Also note there are no 10-speed MTB groups.

    The one "advantage" of upgrading from 8 to 9 rather than directly to 10-speed Shimano is that 9-speed components are still being sold at close-out prices by the big mailorder places. That won't last much longer but, for the time being, 9-speed stuff is a real bargain. Shimano 8-speed hubs and derailleurs are compatible with both 9 and 10-speed components so you can upgrade in steps as you wish. To me, the biggest benefit of upgrading from 8 to 9-speed is that a 16T cog is included in several 9-speed cassettes.

    Campy 8-speed was a different story. It was a short-lived stop on the way to 9 and 10-speed groups. 8-speed hubs, derailleurs, etc. weren't compatible with the later groups so 8-speed became an orphan fairly quickly.

  5. #5
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider
    9-speed appears to be adequately durable. Witness the fact that 9-speed MTB components survive ghastly conditions routinely.
    +1.......I hear the talk about how much more durable 8 speed chains are than 9 speed, then I think about how many hard off-road miles I've put on both 8 and 9 speed drivetrains without any noticeable difference in durability, and I can only conclude that for real world riding, it really doesn't make any difference-

  6. #6
    Senior Member Steev's Avatar
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    Replacement parts for 8 speed are way cheaper, just price out a new chain and cassette.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    To me it depends on where the extra gear is added.

    If the difference between 8 & 9 or 9 & 10 is the presence or absence of a favorite cog, like a 16 for example, then it makes a big difference.

    If it just adds a cog on the big end of the cassette that you'd just as soon double shift over when you are climbing or descending a hill, then it might actually be counter productive.

  8. #8
    GATC
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    Is there much change in finicky-ness of rear derailers moving from 8 to 9 to 10 spd? My 9 spd 105 RD seems really demanding, needs a lot of tweaking, like just w/ tire pressure changes, while my 8 spd stx RD seems bombproof, no tweaking needed when changing cassettes or rims (or both). That could be a frame thing I guess, how easy it is to properly seat the wheel.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
    To me it depends on where the extra gear is added.

    If the difference between 8 & 9 or 9 & 10 is the presence or absence of a favorite cog, like a 16 for example, then it makes a big difference.

    If it just adds a cog on the big end of the cassette that you'd just as soon double shift over when you are climbing or descending a hill, then it might actually be counter productive.
    Right on. For me the 16T was a revalation. I never had a 7 or 8-speed cassette that contained a 16T since, with the hills around me, I always had a pretty wide cog range, usually 13x26. When I got my 9-speed with the 13x25 I discovered the joys of the 16T and will never have a bike without one if I can help it.

    In fact, I customized a 12x27 9-speed cassette by discarding the top 12T cog and second position 13T cogs, fitted a 13T top cog and adding a loose 16T to the stack. Shimano's 10-speed 12x27 would automatically have the 16T but provide a useless (to me) 12T.

    The best cassette for my use is the Campy 13x29 10-speed that I have on another bike. Every cog I want and nothing I don't.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider
    Right on. For me the 16T was a revalation. I never had a 7 or 8-speed cassette that contained a 16T since, with the hills around me, I always had a pretty wide cog range, usually 13x26. When I got my 9-speed with the 13x25 I discovered the joys of the 16T and will never have a bike without one if I can help it.

    In fact, I customized a 12x27 9-speed cassette by discarding the top 12T cog and second position 13T cogs, fitted a 13T top cog and adding a loose 16T to the stack. Shimano's 10-speed 12x27 would automatically have the 16T but provide a useless (to me) 12T.
    +1 All of my cassettes, 9-speed and 10-speed, start with a 13t and include the 16.

    I have found no difference in chain wear or any other drivetrain components between 7, 8, 9, or 10-speed.

    Al

  11. #11
    blacksheep the blemish
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    As far as "conditions" arguments are concerned, what about all the cross riders using 10 speed? In the cross racing I've done I've never had a problem with the drive train becoming unuseable from it's 'narrow' spacing.

  12. #12
    cs1
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    For this particular build I want to try Shimano. So, I will use a 8/9/10 sp hub. I know any 8 sp der can handle a 10. My question was basically with future cassette/chain/shifter availability. Those are the parts that are different between the groups.

    I am leaning toward 9 sp.


    Tim
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    1989 Raleigh Technium, 1989 Schwinn Traveler, 1986 Specialized Rockhopper
    1984 Specialized Stumpjumper, 1986 Specialized Stumpjumper and just way too many projects to list.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1
    For this particular build I want to try Shimano. So, I will use a 8/9/10 sp hub. I know any 8 sp der can handle a 10. My question was basically with future cassette/chain/shifter availability. Those are the parts that are different between the groups.

    I am leaning toward 9 sp.


    Tim
    In general, thanks to eBay, future availability is quite good for quite long. You can still find 7-sp cassettes, and even pick your gearing.

    As for the 16T, I do admit for me it is one of the most useful cog, since the 15-17 jump is large (12%), and right in the middle of where I normally ride. I have a 7sp 13-21 cassette (13-14-15-16-17-19-21), and a 10sp 12-25 (same as above, plus 12 and 23-25), and it does wonders over the old 13-23 7sp (13-14-15-17-19-21-23). The 7sp 13-21 is not the best for steep stuff, tho.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zouf
    The 7sp 13-21 is not the best for steep stuff, tho.
    No argument there. The only bike I ever had a 13x21 7-speed cassette on was one I kept at a friend's house in Florida. It worked fine there but would be useless at home.

  15. #15
    Senior Member z415's Avatar
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    The 16 tooth cog is the only reason I went 9s, but then I'm sure there are 16 cogs on 8s cassettes.

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