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  1. #1
    Oklahoma STATE University johnblake's Avatar
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    Looking at buying this bike. But don't understand this lingo:

    Ok guys, I am a rookie to all this road bike stuff and know absolutely nothing about what I am doing. Read through this series of emails that we have exchanged (start at the bottom for the first email and work your way up... the most recent email is at the top). I am looking at buying this bike from a private seller, but don't have anything to compare it to. He's selling it for $695. Am I getting a good deal? -Phil




    Friday sounds good according to the weather report. If we're doing some fitting work outdoors, we'll need the 40+ degree weather. Past 5:30 p.m. it will be too cold, and the bike shop closes at 6. Sunday and Monday are also scheduled warmer, however there is 30% chance of rain predicted.

    I'll bring the bike, some small wrenches, some stems and some saddles.

    I do also have a set of Rol race (areo accelerator style) wheels for sale; however, professional wheels need to fit body, bike, and purpose in order for the desired speed/efficiency boost to work.
    You can also test drive these if you wish, and see if they work for you.
    The rear wheel is an SL28, but the front is a Rol Race WS20 on shock absorb spokes and ceramic bearing hub for extra speed (an incredible difference) and so that it can be "dialed in" to a variety of body weights or riding conditions, still with a nice soft ride. They're priced at $280 but I don't really need to sell them because I like them.

    This bike is an S30 equipped a bit differently than the current model. This one has the Pro areo alloy frame and the Pro CR1 forks, winged areo, same as their CR1 carbon racer.

    In addition, the gearing is set up to handle large hills and long distances with Shimano 105 9-series large triple and a 13-25 cassette that features the same efficient racing layout as the 12-23, but with additional support for the large triple crankset to go over some big hills.

    From March 2005 to August 2006, when it was new, it was operated as a race bike in Colorado. I rode it for about 300 miles, but I usually used my steel tourbike instead, last season. During this time, I noticed that the Scott, when operated with areo wheels, goes remarkably faster than most other bikes.
    I also noticed that I would prefer 1 size smaller. The Scott fits my long legs (size 30 waist, 34 inseam pants), but not my short arms (I'm 5'11" tall).

    As you can see, it has very low miles.

    Which one of the predicted warm days would be a good time for you?
    Friday?


    "Phil" wrote:
    What model is that bike? Is it an S30? S40? S50? I have a paper due next week, and a presentation and test on friday. Would it be possible to meet Friday afternoon the 16th or Saturday the 17th?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Daniel


    Hey, Phil, that's great news on the height.

    Let me give you an indication of the handlebar positions on the road bike and their possible effects.

    But first, you can have your glasses adjusted (I wear glasses too) so that the nosepiece pads are 1) closer together and 2) closer to the lenses. That will decrease the gap at the top for ya.

    Here's some of the diagnosis I work with when fitting a bike:
    The most usual cause of discomfort is found on people with proportionately longer legs than arms.
    For most, 1 size smaller bike, outfitted with an UP! angle stem to compensate the front will use up the extra leg length.
    Setting a non-hooked saddle farther back is sometimes an option, and those require padded bike shorts.
    Also good are "short reach" model handlebars to decrease the "dive" for the shifters.
    However, on any road bike, the handlebars must be at least an inch lower than the seat in order to protect the spine--very, very important that the handlebars not be too high, but "closer" is just fine.
    For effective spinning technique is it necessary to be able to reach the shifter while pedaling very fast and simultaneously having the spine perfectly flat and straight. So, one does work to eliminate any hunch that's caused by an imbalance in the strict relationship between handlebars and saddle.

    I believe that your last test drive had more to do by fitting/sizing to your inseam than fitting/sizing to your reach.

    I live straight north at the Kansas border, but we could both meet in Bartlesville.
    They have a nice bike shop there that could help us if needed. I can bring the bike, 2 different handlebars, some saddles, and 3 different stems.
    I don't happen to have a 120 UP! stem, but I do have an 80 regular 120 flat, and a 90 UP! for the possiblility of putting in some mountain bike like comfort.
    I'll bring the bike with its factory/starter wheels and some strap pedals so you can test drive it and I can see what's going on with your fit. I'll also bring along my personal set of racing wheels so you can see what those feel like. Most importantly, let's look at fit. We'll start out with the 80 regular stem oriented "face up" which seems appropriate at this time, but I'll bring the wrenches. It would be great if you'd bring your mountain bike so I can measure it and translate that fit into what you'd need for a road bike. Of course the handlebars go in a different spot, but the rest is similar, so it would be great if you could bring it along for reference.

    We can also test drive a Trek from the bike store and get some more ideas on fitting there.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Phil" wrote:
    I'm about 6'2" 6-3"


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Daniel

    This bike would be very comfortable if you are 6'1" or 6'2" tall, and certainly get you into road sports in fine style and speed.

    Otherwise, you might want consider a bike called "Mountain Road Hybrid"
    Formerly, this was called a cyclocross.

    Diamondback Maravista can become this when equipped with a set of road "climber style" wheels or some light areos. Nashbar.com's FSA RD80 wheelset, Reynolds Alta Comp, and Neuvation's R28SL2 all qualify to pep up the Maravista long distance hybrid into some excellent climbing performance.

    There's some more tricks to "road speeding" a mountain hybrid
    1). The top tube slopes, so don't be fooled into buying one that's too large. Use the smallest size you can ride comfortably even if there's one heck of a lot of seatpost showing.
    2). A replacement cassette of SRAM PG850 11-30 for about $28 will perform much better because there are less gaps between gears. Also consider outfitting this cassette with a 12t top cog (ask at the bike shop).
    3). Road tires that are soft and flat free, and also light are found in Serfas Seca RS, the most popular tire of Freewheel 2006.
    4). If the brakes aren't working quite right, Tektro 930 alloy linear pull brakes, with Kool Stop pads added, will do it for a tiny price.

    After this, if there's time and budget, consider a quality crankset and a lightweight quill stem from Profile Designs. Play with the adjustable first, then order a "fixed" stem that will hold the bars in a similar position, but not weigh 2 pounds. Cranksets: Vultea, Sugino, Suntour, and others make quality all alloy square taper cranksets with alloy chainrings that will bolt right on plug-n-play.

    The end result is slightly more $ than either my bike or an entry level road bike, but you can make Maravista as fast and light as a road bike without losing its mountain bike ride. This does not participate in other forms of road bike sports, but certainly goes the speed and distance for touring.

    As far as using my road bike, neck angle has to do with reach, which is governed by 1) Stem, 2) Handlebar, and 3) Top Tube. You cannot change the top tube, so I'd like to know how tall you are before we continue. Certainly, if your bike is the right size, adjustments can be made as far as reach, neck angle, and the only thing that should be uncomfortable is a slight wrist pressure and the triceps arm muscles.
    There's no reason to ride along with the stem face down if you can't see that way. Just flip it over or use a shorter stem and/or Kalloy's Short Reach handlebars. Either can get you a better view and some more comfort. Road bike bars that are closer are very nice. Higher is not nice once past 30 miles. Think "closer" reach for the problem you described on your test drives.

    Training required? Ride with the Tulsa Bike Club, and get your distance up to 30 or 40 miles before the start of the tour. This is very easy.
    For road bikes, a small amount of push-ups exercise 3 sets, 3x weekly will ease the break in period. Also accompany this by the grip strengthening exerciser to make your wrists strong, and thus comfortable.

    You'll notice that a mountain bike has a very huge cassette, small wheels and a small crankset so that it can climb through leverage. This is incredibly slow and exhausting.

    Road bikes climb through their light weight, momentum and super-light wheels. That's why they can go through the big hills so quickly with their small cassettes, large wheels, and large cranksets. It really isn't the 14 pound frame that makes them go so fast, but rather middle range and better road wheels are simply no effort on hills.

    How tall are you?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Parr, Phil" wrote:
    Ok, I have been riding mountain bike trails for 3-4 years and have been considering going on the ok freewheel trip. How much training is necessary? Would this be a good comfortable bike for the freewheel trip? I went and rode some road bikes at the trek dealership here in tulsa, and honestly, the bikes all seemed very uncomfortable compared to a mountain bike. It seemed like my neck would get extremely tired riding a road bike compared to a mountain bike. Also I wear glasses, which means that I have to adjust my neck even more than normal in order to be able to see. How stupid would it be, for a beginning road biker that is just interested in the freewheel thing just to say he did it, to ride a mountain bike on the trip? Also, how far away from tulsa are you? Thanks. -Phil
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Daniel

    Hi Phil!

    The bike is a high end, areo alloy, road bike, size 58, equipped with a Shimano 105 Triple.

    That means a few things.
    High end refers to stronger, lighter, faster, and it also refers to the fact that it comes with "starter" wheels and without pedals. Road bike shoes and pedals fitted to you are at the bike shop. Suitable performance wheels that match the bike's intent are like: Nashbar's FSA RD80 or Neuvation's R28SL2. And both are reasonably inexpensive, yet terribly speedy.
    High end also means that you use only racing components; however, Serfas has recently developed a unique anti-flat racing tire named Serfas Seca RS, the favorite tire of Freewheel, and it is acceptable to a high end bike.
    However, Rivendell tires, Raleigh bells, kickstands, Brooks saddles, racks, and fenders don't belong anywhere near a high end bike. No way! This Scott is a speed machine, far different from a commuter.
    An exception: A small handlebar bag and a large under-seat pack are acceptable to high end bikes on tour.

    Size 58 means that you need to be between 6'0" tall and 6'3" tall, and areo alloy means that it doesn't matter how much weight you can put on it, and feel free to jump an obstacle whenever you'd like.
    Areo alloy also means, do not use a front wheel that contains less than 18 spokes or any amount of the extra-fat blade spokes. A 24/20 miniblade or round set can be delightfully speedy, easily reaching speeds over 30mph because it is supposed to.

    Areo alloy is much stronger than carbon fiber, and areo alloy transmits 100% of your pedaling power into the wheel. The bike has the extra bracings underneath for Triathlon and European racing. The forks are triathlon style, and this means extra strength. They are built all in one piece. Completely carbon forks with no glue joints like this CR1 will last much longer than average.

    The areodynamics, suitable for road race and triathlon use, are very, very pleasant when a big headwind strikes. On the Hotter Than Hll Hundred century ride (100+ miles) in Wichita Falls, TX, I was grateful for the high end areodynamics because of the last 40 miles of storm-inspired and strong headwinds. Many on "regular" road bikes were hauled away by truck, however the Scott Speedster with pro CR1 winged forks made easy headway against the fierce winds.

    In the last 20 miles, when I had not much strength left from the heat and 30 to 40 mph headwinds, that is where I believe that the high end areodynamics made the difference between riding in the back of a truck like most. . . or, like me, riding the bike across the finish line. It certainly wasn't extra strength on my part. The bike helped me a lot.

    105 triple refers to a Shimano brand performance drivetrain, and "triple" refers to 3 chainrings so you can go up a mountain even if you get tired.
    It also refers to an easy to manage component system that can use Tiagra-9, Ultegra, Shimano 105, and Dura Ace parts all interchangably.
    In the unlikely event you happen to wear out a part, it can be replaced by itself, which is really convenient.

    For instance, it is currently wearing a brand new Dura Ace 9 chain because those run faster and last twice as long, and it is wearing "dura type" brake pads from Kool Stop so it takes only a very light pressure to activate the brakes, and it stops easily in wet weather.

    Since the dust covers were worn on the Shimano 105 shifters, these were replaced with new Ultegra dust covers, so, of course, they appear to be Ultegra shifters (which is better), and that just happens to be the only differences in those anyway. Those were worn from setting the bike upside down to put on wheels because it was always carried inside the car, away from dust.

    As far as I know, except for the wheels that I don't use, the bike has all perfect parts, appears new, and is in truly excellent condition.

    Areo alloy bikes can also participate in time trials and in triathlons. They also fare very well in the race manuever known as a "breakaway" whereby you pull ahead of the pack solo or in pairs, relying on the aredynamics of the bike rather than the wind blocking effect of the peloton.

    Well, that's the nature of it. It is sateen black, with white and red lettering. Its appearance even conveys the message of professionalism and strength. It is a European style bike, like Bianchi, except that Scott's areodynamics work better.

    Why am I selling it then? I'm 5'11" tall. I have shorter than average arms. My sport preference is cycle touring. I have plans to buy a more tour-centric bike because cycle tourists like cushy comfort and have no need to make the scenery all blurry by going so fast.

  2. #2
    ಠ_ಠ DevilsGT2's Avatar
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    Damn, you want us to read all that for FREE?
    Singletrack Mind

  3. #3
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    This is from a private seller or a store? After reading most of this - what the heck? Sub in your own word for heck.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ollo_ollo's Avatar
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    Run!

  5. #5
    we are 138 Philatio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnblake
    Ok guys, I am a rookie to all this road bike stuff and know absolutely nothing about what I am doing. Read through this series of emails that we have exchanged (start at the bottom for the first email and work your way up... the most recent email is at the top). I am looking at buying this bike from a private seller, but don't have anything to compare it to. He's selling it for $695. Am I getting a good deal? -Phil
    Ok, I skimmed/read most of it. He talks a whole lot about the bike without actually saying anything about it. He sounds like a terrible guy to buy something from - all he talks about sounds like generic marketing bull**** you really don't need to know. There is no way I'd buy it from the dude unless I checked it out in person and was 100% sure what was up with the actual bike.

    In short, it's not worth the hassle or risk of dealing with him. Buy from someone else.

  6. #6
    mousse de chocolat Moose's Avatar
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    I thought this was creepy, apparently I am not alone.

  7. #7
    cab horn
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    I read a couple of sentences then got bored and went to make something to eat. The seller sounds like a marketing grad.

    Wouldn't buy jack crap off him.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  8. #8
    Oklahoma STATE University johnblake's Avatar
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    .

    Well is it at least a good price for this particular bike?

  9. #9
    Senior Member FlatFender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnblake
    Well is it at least a good price for this particular bike?
    I dont even know what kind of bike it is. However, it sounds like this guy is tryin' to hose ya

  10. #10
    Oklahoma STATE University johnblake's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help guys... I appreciate it.

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    Is there a Cliffs Notes for this thread?

  12. #12
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tec-9
    Is there a Cliffs Notes for this thread?
    Buyer a noob.
    Seller sounds like marketing exec on crack trying to sell snow to the eskimos.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  13. #13
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    The bike is a high end, areo alloy, road bike, size 58, equipped with a Shimano 105 Triple.

    That means a few things.
    High end refers to stronger, lighter, faster, and it also refers to the fact that it comes with "starter" wheels and without pedals. Road bike shoes and pedals fitted to you are at the bike shop. Suitable performance wheels that match the bike's intent are like: Nashbar's FSA RD80 or Neuvation's R28SL2. And both are reasonably inexpensive, yet terribly speedy.


    BULL**** OVERLOAD!!! Head explodes.... can't read the rest....

  14. #14
    Svr
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    Senior Member Svr's Avatar
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    *>>>Areo alloy is much stronger than carbon fiber, and areo alloy transmits 100% of your pedaling power into the wheel. The bike has the extra bracings underneath for Triathlon and European racing. The forks are triathlon style, and this means extra strength. They are built all in one piece. Completely carbon forks with no glue joints like this CR1 will last much longer than average.<<<*


  15. #15
    Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP) Stacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops
    The bike is a high end, areo alloy, road bike, size 58, equipped with a Shimano 105 Triple.

    That means a few things.
    High end refers to stronger, lighter, faster, and it also refers to the fact that it comes with "starter" wheels and without pedals. Road bike shoes and pedals fitted to you are at the bike shop. Suitable performance wheels that match the bike's intent are like: Nashbar's FSA RD80 or Neuvation's R28SL2. And both are reasonably inexpensive, yet terribly speedy.


    BULL**** OVERLOAD!!! Head explodes.... can't read the rest....
    Funny, my head exploded in exactly the same place.

  16. #16
    Your mom
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    It's a Scott bike - mid-range in their lineup. So the seller sounds a little like he's on speed. But he also sounds like he knows exactly what's up with the bike and has taken care of it. I don't think the price is great, though. I suspect you could get him to come down $100, as he seems eager to sell.

  17. #17
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    I would only buy from someone like this if you know your stuff. And since you don't (and hence are asking us in this thread) I'd recommend staying away from this. Unless you have a friend who knows his stuff who can come with you to the Kansas border. (Even that sounds creepy - "come to the border and we can exchange money for the bike.")

  18. #18
    Dr.Deltron
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery
    "come to the border and we can exchange money for the bike."


    I just did that to a lady from Arizona...

    "Bring $6K to L.A. and we can exchange the money for the trike,"

    She did, I did, we did. Everybody's happy now!

    Dubious? Check BentRider online for posts by "itself". She LOOOOVES the trike!
    In spite of meeting the seller on an L.A. street corner!
    (the corner in front of my brothers house)

    Sometimes weird encounters lead to wondeful results.

  19. #19
    Mooninite shakeNbake's Avatar
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    Yeah the combo of used-car-salesman-lingo and typos worries me.

    I suggest you stay out of it.

  20. #20
    MFA jjvw's Avatar
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    <<In the last 20 miles, when I had not much strength left from the heat and 30 to 40 mph headwinds, that is where I believe that the high end areodynamics made the difference between riding in the back of a truck like most. . . or, like me, riding the bike across the finish line. It certainly wasn't extra strength on my part. The bike helped me a lot.>>

    This must also have that new Placebo group set I've been reading about.

  21. #21
    Blue Light Special kmart's Avatar
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    Wow

    That's a whole lotta bull. I don't think I can stomach all of that in one sitting. Can I get a take-out box please?

  22. #22
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
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    Couldn't get past the 1st letter. So many words and so little information...wow! First write down what features you want in a bike. What kind of riding you want to do. And how much you are willing to spend. Then wait until you can see some similar bikes maybe at your LBS. Talk to the LBS about any tradein possibilities where people are buying something new and want to sell the older bike. Just an idea...but I definitely would not buy that bike. Try eBay. I have gotten some great bikes off eBay.

  23. #23
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    seems like that guy's a little nuts. and the price is too high. Don't do it. Craigslist.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  24. #24
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    seems like that guy's a little nuts. and the price is too high. Don't do it. Craigslist.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  25. #25
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    "It really isn't the 14 pound frame that makes them go so fast, but rather middle range and better road wheels are simply no effort on hills."

    "areo alloy means that it doesn't matter how much weight you can put on it, and feel free to jump an obstacle whenever you'd like."

    "Those were worn from setting the bike upside down to put on wheels because it was always carried inside the car, away from dust."

    "Its appearance even conveys the message of professionalism and strength."

    This dude is hilarious.....definetly sounds like a used car salesman.

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