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  1. #1
    Ono! sestivers's Avatar
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    Warning! SRAM 10-speed PowerLink is NOT reuseable!

    So I went to a particular LBS for the first time today to ask about the Cannondale frame replacement program and decided to buy a chain while I was there. They had three options: Ultegra CN6600, SRAM 1070, and SRAM 1090. I decided to try the SRAM 1070 because I liked the PowerLink feature that I had used before (PowerLink Gold for 9-speed). The shop guy concurred that the PowerLink is nice because you can remove the chain over and over.

    Well, for SRAM 10-speed, it's not designed to be used over and over. Upon installing it, it was obvious that it to be used only once, and the instruction manual states this as well. If I had known this (or if the shop would have told me instead of assuming it's the same as a 9-speed PowerLink except narrower for 10-speed), I would have bought the cheaper Ultegra chain.

    So what is the benefit of a SRAM chain anymore? I say none. Maybe 10 grams lighter but $5 more expensive (than Ultegra, probably $10 more than 105).

    Should I ask the shop for the $5 difference between the chain I would have bought if they had not misled me? I can't simply return it because I cut it to length before I found out that the PowerLink is not reuseable.
    Steve

  2. #2
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Because it's still a better chain than the Shimano and because re-joining the chain with a new PowerLock master link still beats the heck outta Shimano's stupid replacement pins.

  3. #3
    Senior Member FlatFender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby
    Because it's still a better chain than the Shimano and because re-joining the chain with a new PowerLock master link still beats the heck outta Shimano's stupid replacement pins.
    x24233345246472468473254123425346137.3

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sestivers

    Should I ask the shop for the $5 difference between the chain I would have bought if they had not misled me?
    Are you even human?

  5. #5
    Ono! sestivers's Avatar
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    So this PowerLock is better than Shimano's system how? If I need to remove and replace this chain I have to buy a new PowerLock at $5+ each time instead of for free since Shimano chains come with one or two extra connecting pins.
    Steve

  6. #6
    Senior Member barba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sestivers
    So this PowerLock is better than Shimano's system how? If I need to remove and replace this chain I have to buy a new PowerLock at $5+ each time instead of for free since Shimano chains come with one or two extra connecting pins.
    The connecting pins (especially the 10 speed variety) are prone to failure unless installed carefully. It is really a bad system for joining the chain.

  7. #7
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barba
    The connecting pins (especially the 10 speed variety) are prone to failure unless installed carefully. It is really a bad system for joining the chain.
    I've never used a 10-speed Shimano chain (or other 10-speed chain, for that matter) but I've never had a problem with the replacement-pin system in Shimano chains for 9- and 8-speed...

  8. #8
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    10 speed pins are picky as hell because everything's so narrow. They're better than they used to be but still not as easy as the old 8/9.

  9. #9
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    I guess SRAM did not want to continuing licensing the design from Superlink. Why not buy a 10sp Superlink and use the Ultegra or replace the Powerlink with a Superlink?

  10. #10
    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sestivers
    Should I ask the shop for the $5 difference between the chain I would have bought if they had not misled me?
    Absolutely not!
    .cinelli.olympic.surly.long.haul.trucker.kona.ku.surly.steamroller.
    .litespeed.classic.litespeed.firenze.bianchi.pista.dean.colonel.plus.more.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    I’m also disappointed to learn about the non-reusability of the 10 speed SRAM link. Wipperman ConneX links are also a major disappointment since they are ridiculously priced – 9 speed is only $4 but the narrow 10 speed is $13 (Performance pricing). Current best option seems to be the new $7 Super Link IV. KMC also makes a link but it’s priced up there with Wipperman so why bother?

    Overall, it’s a sad state of affairs when it comes to 10 speed chains. All the mfgers are gouging on price and consumers like us are feeling the pinch. Sad state indeed.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

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  12. #12
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    There is nothing "hidden" about the fact that the SRAM 10sp chain uses a non-reusable PowerLink - it's visible in the instruction sheet. RTFM, as they say. I do admit that they are quite silent about it on their web site, skirting about the issue - they talk about the link as a faster and more secure way of joining the chain, but never mention anything about taking it apart.

    In choosing a replacement for an Ultegra 10sp, I wound up with the ConneX as the best alternative. And it works great. It can be replaced, not fiddling with replacement pins, it remains strong, and it shifts flawlessly. But it is more costly, i.e. like $90 vs $35 for an Ultegra chain.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zouf
    In choosing a replacement for an Ultegra 10sp, I wound up with the ConneX as the best alternative. And it works great. It can be replaced, not fiddling with replacement pins, it remains strong, and it shifts flawlessly. But it is more costly, i.e. like $90 vs $35 for an Ultegra chain.

    Your definition of "BEST" is COMPLETELY different from mine! I'll quit biking for life before I pay $90 for a chain!!!

    At worst one could buy a Shimano chain for $30 - $40 and then buy a connecting link from Wipperman or a Superlink for $7 - $13. In either case you are WAY less than $90.
    Last edited by Nessism; 02-09-07 at 03:32 PM.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Cyclologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barba
    The connecting pins (especially the 10 speed variety) are prone to failure unless installed carefully. It is really a bad system for joining the chain.
    How can you tell if you've installed it incorrectly? I had to use a reconnecting pin to lengthen my chain, but now I'm dredding the bloody thing breaking on me during a ride and to make matters worse I don't have a dork disc anymore.
    Last edited by Cyclologist; 02-10-07 at 09:10 AM.

  15. #15
    Sometimes knows stuff. rmfnla's Avatar
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    Sounds like a huge step step backward for SRAM.

    Fortunately, there's IRD:

    http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html

    I've always preferred their chains, anyway.
    Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...

  16. #16
    Guadzilla JayC's Avatar
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    Im using an Ultegra chain with a Connex link on my SRAM stuff.. works fine. Had to remove the SRAM chain and couldnt find a Powerlock anywhere so it's just laying on my workbench until I can get another Connex link to go in it.

  17. #17
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    overall, its a sad state of affairs when it comes to 10 speeds, PERIOD.

    great marketing gimmick, though. Got all you guys to upgrade, didn't it?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  18. #18
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
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    Ride one of the ultra light campy 10spd chains with the narrowest of connex links for 1 season and have removed the chain to clean it multiple times...no problems. Try a connex quick link.
    On the $5 the bike store doesn't know everything about every product. It would be nice if you went back and gave some NICE feedback on the chain. It would help the knowledge base of the local bicycling community where you live. Good riding in 07.

  19. #19
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    overall, its a sad state of affairs when it comes to 10 speeds, PERIOD.

    great marketing gimmick, though. Got all you guys to upgrade, didn't it?
    Nope.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

  20. #20
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    DMF, you didn't need that extra nuance in the corncob, eh? Who would really, actually, NEED one more gear in a 11-23? at the expense of cassette and chain longevity, the addition of more finicky shifting and less usable gears in regards to ones' chainline?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sestivers
    So I went to a particular LBS for the first time today to ask about the Cannondale frame replacement program and decided to buy a chain while I was there. They had three options: Ultegra CN6600, SRAM 1070, and SRAM 1090. I decided to try the SRAM 1070 because I liked the PowerLink feature that I had used before (PowerLink Gold for 9-speed). The shop guy concurred that the PowerLink is nice because you can remove the chain over and over.

    Well, for SRAM 10-speed, it's not designed to be used over and over. Upon installing it, it was obvious that it to be used only once, and the instruction manual states this as well. If I had known this (or if the shop would have told me instead of assuming it's the same as a 9-speed PowerLink except narrower for 10-speed), I would have bought the cheaper Ultegra chain.

    So what is the benefit of a SRAM chain anymore? I say none. Maybe 10 grams lighter but $5 more expensive (than Ultegra, probably $10 more than 105).

    Should I ask the shop for the $5 difference between the chain I would have bought if they had not misled me? I can't simply return it because I cut it to length before I found out that the PowerLink is not reuseable.


    i LOVE hearing about uniformed consumers, such as yourself, getting the shaft.....

    like some right wingers love to say...."oh well.....it's your personal responsibilty to know things like this.....to bad....."

  22. #22
    Senior Member barba's Avatar
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    The one thing I envy about 10 speed is the presence of a 16t cog on my preferred 12-25 cassette. There is something very nice about that 16 cog.

  23. #23
    blacksheep the blemish
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    Quote Originally Posted by sestivers
    Should I ask the shop for the $5 difference between the chain I would have bought if they had not misled me?
    Hah, bring a video camera so we can watch you get thrown out. Maybe if you really, really, want to be remembered as an ass customer.

  24. #24
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    Oh... On the subject of the '5$' I'd suggest you think back... You say the shop guy 'concurred' with you that the powerlink was nice. Did he say that chain specifically had the replacable powerlink? I'd suggest mentioning it next time you're up at the shop but if you really want to squabble over 5$ on a 10 speed chain I doubt you're going to get anywhere. Depending on the specifics of the whole thing I'd say the most you could hope for would be a hookup on some goods the next time you're in.

  25. #25
    Ono! sestivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesuper
    i LOVE hearing about uniformed consumers, such as yourself, getting the shaft.....

    like some right wingers love to say...."oh well.....it's your personal responsibilty to know things like this.....to bad....."
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapeworm21
    Are you even human?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fixer
    Absolutely not!
    Quote Originally Posted by endform
    Hah, bring a video camera so we can watch you get thrown out. Maybe if you really, really, want to be remembered as an ass customer.
    Wouldn't any of you be at least a little upset if you were at a restaurant and ordered a cheeseburger but the waitress brings you a hamburger but still charges the extra dollar for the cheese that you didn't get?

    Personally, I am very non-confrontational and would have a hard time asking for anything back regardless of the situation. I was just trying to vent. The time it would take me to get there is worth way more than $5 too.

    I don't understand why anyone would think the customer is at fault in a situation like this though. Why would the customer be expected to know every last detail of every product before he buys it? There would be no reason to have a salesman/technician/whatever because then the customer would just need to go to the store and buy the item he needs (or get it from SuperNashPerf). Often a customer is in a vulnerable position and should be able to trust the presumed expertise of someone who gets paid to know about the products in his store.

    On top of this, the first rule of business is that the customer is always right. If the customer is not right, it's still the businesses responsibility to make the customer feel like he's right until an agreeable solution is found.

    Other than that, it seems like some other "quick links" for 10-speed chains are not reusable either (KMC is not reusable). So maybe I *could* have figured it out on my own, but my opinion is that I asked the question, and received the wrong answer.
    Steve

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