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Old 02-22-07, 08:59 AM   #1
gfrance
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I feel like a moron, but....

I just got delivery of a complete bike, but it was damaged in the shipping. Most notably is considerable scratching of the paint. But, in attempting to pop the wheels on, there was nothing I could do to get the rear wheel on. It's a Cane Creek Cronos, Dura Ace 9 speed cassette. I tried the wheel on another bike and no problem.

Question: Could this be a problem with a bent or damaged derailler hanger? The hub and cassette just can't get behind the derailler in order to slot into the dropout. I feel like a moron because my mechanical skills must be seriously bad if I can't even get a real wheel installed. (But, remember, I can, with no problem, get the wheel onto my other bike). Help.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:04 AM   #2
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Could it be a spacing issue? Is it a new bike or a used one? If used, perhaps the prior owner decided to stretch things a little when upgrading from a smaller rear hub. We need more info, I think.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tellyho
Could it be a spacing issue? Is it a new bike or a used one? If used, perhaps the prior owner decided to stretch things a little when upgrading from a smaller rear hub. We need more info, I think.
Shouldn't be a spacing issue as the bike came with the wheels and was at least pictured assembled. Wheels unattached for purpose of shipping.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:16 AM   #4
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Did you shift the rear derailleur into the smallest cog position in the back and are you putting the chain on said cog?
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Old 02-22-07, 09:21 AM   #5
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When in doubt, Isolate the problem;

Remove the Derailleur from the bike, place it and the chain out of the way. See if the wheel goes in the dropouts.

Depending on the material of the frame, (I can't be arsed to look it up right now, I'm about to leave for work,) You might have to give it just a -TINY BIT- of 'spread' in order to fit the wheel in.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessism
Did you shift the rear derailleur into the smallest cog position in the back and are you putting the chain on said cog?
I didn't do any shifting but I could only attempt to lay the chain into the rear cog, but couldn't get it in. It's a matter of not being able to get the hub/cassette to clear the derailer in order to get onto the chain.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:52 AM   #7
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I'm thinking (when I get home) to let the air out of the tire to maybe get a bit more clearance. If that doesn't work, I'll remove the derailleur and insert wheel to see if the frame is at least in line.
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Old 02-22-07, 07:06 PM   #8
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The angle of the derailleur may have shifted in shipping, especially since you say there was damage. Not necessarily a bent hanger, but possibly the derailleur turned forward out of position. I would try to remove the derailleur from the hanger, mount the wheel, and then reinstall the derailleur properly.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfrance
I didn't do any shifting but I could only attempt to lay the chain into the rear cog, but couldn't get it in. It's a matter of not being able to get the hub/cassette to clear the derailer in order to get onto the chain.
Any time you take off a wheel you should shift down in the rear until the chain is on the smallest cog. Much easier to get the wheel on and off.

So now that the wheel is off, shift down as far as possible and when you put the wheel in make sure to put the chain on the small cog.
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Old 02-23-07, 09:03 AM   #10
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Update: I removed the deraileur and got it out of the way in order to see if the wheel would go into the dropout. Bad news. It still does not. This feels really bad. I'm no expert on steel frames, but have heard that they can become out of line due to a crash or something. It is very hard to believe this kind of frame damage can be done during shipping.

So, if this is indeed the case, what are my options now? Can the LBS realign a frame or is this better left to an expert frame maker or something. Help.
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Old 02-23-07, 09:30 AM   #11
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It should have been shipped with an axle in the drop-outs to prevent crushing. Talk to shipper about return for money back, or refund of realignment costs (check possibility with LBS).
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Old 02-23-07, 09:31 AM   #12
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I'd return it.

You could get it realigned but what else has the frame been through? How much is it going to cost to do the realignment. If it is just the rear triangle, not much. If you have hanger/dropout problems, it would be more expensive. Was the bike packed with inserts to the dropouts to prevent crushing?
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Old 02-23-07, 10:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfrance
It is very hard to believe this kind of frame damage can be done during shipping.

I take it you have never worked in a warehouse, most of product damage comes from shipping. I have seen fork lift operators stack pallets three high, puncture boxes with the forks of the lift, and don't get me started with how the inside of a semi trailer looks when it comes from across country. And all this was for the computer industry, where the product is considered fragile and expensive. Imagine what a bike frame must go through when it is stacked at the bottom because of it box's shape. My other hobby is with old cars, and shippers can even destroy an old cast iron engine block that is properly strapped to a pallet.

Now that my rant is over. Was there shipping insurance? If so, I would get the whole bicycle replaced.
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Old 02-23-07, 10:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfrance
Update: I removed the deraileur and got it out of the way in order to see if the wheel would go into the dropout. Bad news. It still does not. This feels really bad. I'm no expert on steel frames, but have heard that they can become out of line due to a crash or something. It is very hard to believe this kind of frame damage can be done during shipping.

So, if this is indeed the case, what are my options now? Can the LBS realign a frame or is this better left to an expert frame maker or something. Help.
How far off is it?

If it's just a couple of mm's just open it up and slide the wheel in.

If we're looking at 7-10mm or more then I think you have a problem.
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Old 02-23-07, 10:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
How far off is it?

If it's just a couple of mm's just open it up and slide the wheel in.

If we're looking at 7-10mm or more then I think you have a problem.
This is where it's weird. It doesn't appear to be far off at all. I tried spreading the chain stays but it still won't go. I've applied pretty hard force, but not so hard I'll do more damage to something. It almost seems like the alignment is out laterally.
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Old 02-23-07, 10:39 AM   #16
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I'd completely stop whatever it is you're doing now and start documenting the damage and then start a claim against the shipping company. Don't do a thing until they come and inspect it or take it away.

I'm surprised the OP wants to stomach the cost of repaint and/or realigning the frame. You paid for a bike that was not in this condition ... and you don't mind?
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Old 02-23-07, 10:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfrance
This is where it's weird. It doesn't appear to be far off at all. I tried spreading the chain stays but it still won't go. I've applied pretty hard force, but not so hard I'll do more damage to something. It almost seems like the alignment is out laterally.
Dumb question: You DO have the quick release/axle nuts opened/removed, don't you?
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Old 02-23-07, 10:48 AM   #18
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^^^^ yes.

I do intend to start photographing and documenting this weekend. But, I'm willing to front a small amount of money in order to get the bike that I want and not deal with the huge hassle of claims and refunds.

I also intend to get it all looked at professionally this weekend to get some idea of cost involved and feasability.
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Old 02-23-07, 10:51 AM   #19
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Sorry for asking all the obvious, but just trying to eliminate things.

Have you opened up the brake calipers?

Just for gits & shiggles... Will the front wheel fit?
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Old 02-23-07, 10:59 AM   #20
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What doesn't fit? Is it the width of the axle is to wide for the drop-outs? If it's not that, I can only guess that the drop-out has been crushed until the opening is too small for the thickness of the axle.
You mention another bike. Have you tried putting the wheel from the other bike on this one? That would tell you if its the wheel or the frame giving trouble.
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Old 02-23-07, 11:00 AM   #21
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^^^ I do NOT mind all the obvious questions at all....yes, I have opened up the brake calipers. I did try the wheel off my other road bike with same 9 speed cassette and it too won't slot in, but I tried the opposite, taking new wheel and trying it on my other bike, and it fitted fine, so seems to not be the wheel.
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Old 02-23-07, 11:29 AM   #22
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I bet it isn't damaged.
I suspect he just managed to pry the rear stays apart enough to slot it in.
It is a MTB? They are usually more heavily constructed than road bikes, so much tougher to pull apart.
What is the rear spacing. 135 mm usually measure about 5.25 or a bit more. 130mm usually measure noticeably less than 5.25(more like 5.1" or 5 1/8)). Measure it to see how close you are.
Is that frame supposed to be 135-9 speed? I think you would have to go back 10 years for 130 spacing on a hig dollar MTB.
Measure it if you can.
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Charlie
PS-If that is a typical MTB, you would usually have to really crush the box to move the stays closer together.Was the box crushed-compressed? They are tough frames in respect to bending in shipping; they will dent and scratch easily, but bend?? Gorilla!! If it is bent; it was bent pre shipping,I bet!
If it is a street bike; ignore me!!
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Old 02-23-07, 11:32 AM   #23
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It is not a MTB. It's a Fondriest Status steel road bike from 1998. The box showed clear signs of damage, but not crushed so to speak. I'm at work now, so can't do any measurements. Thanks
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Old 02-23-07, 06:27 PM   #24
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Update: turns out the problem is a bend in the derailleur hanger. It must be just smooshed enough to inhibit the wheel from slotting into the dropout. I'll be brining it in the shop for a fix.
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