Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-26-07, 03:10 PM   #1
rooftest
Despite all my rage, I am
Thread Starter
 
rooftest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Colnago C-50
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Too much flexing in Bontrager Race Lite rear wheel.

I've got an '06 LeMond Zurich (carbon/steel) with 3,500 miles on it. My problem is my rear wheel. From the factory, it needed major truing, so I paid to have it rebuilt by hand. (LBS said that wasn't covered under warranty.) Now the wheel has too much flex - I can easily move the rim about 1/2 cm each way by hand. The LBS tightened the spokes down for me, but that fixed it for about 500 miles, now the problem is appearing again.

I'm 6 feet tall, 180 pounds. The LBS says this isn't unusual for "high milage" wheels, but I don't consider 3,500 miles "high." Any suggestions?

Thanks,
rooftest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-07, 03:51 PM   #2
pityr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PDX
Bikes: Trek 1200, Kona Honky Inc, PX Stealth
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
try a different LBS?
pityr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-07, 04:01 PM   #3
Treefox
Young and unconcerned
 
Treefox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Merry Land
Bikes: Yeah, I got a few.
Posts: 4,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You mean the rim is floppy? Or is the hub sliding back and forth on the axle?? (that would be a cups n' cones problem)
Treefox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-07, 04:16 PM   #4
OneTinSloth
(Grouchy)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 3,643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
5mm isn't what i would consider an abnormal amount of deflection in a wheel, especially one with a lower spoke count like the bontrager race lites. unless it's totally floppy and you have loose spokes. i can easily move my 32hole 105/open pro 5mm in either direction by hand and i know that wheel is tensioned properly.

wheels aren't supposed to be completely rigid, if they were, your rim would fail the first time you hit a pot hole, or stood up on the pedals to sprint. if you want something with less flex, maybe try a ksyrium SL, but you'll probably be able to do the same thing.

by having the LBS over-tension the wheels for you to eliminate all deflection, it may have damaged the rim, and the reason you're experiencing the problem again might be that the spoke nipples are starting to pull through the rim.

if the spokes are just coming loose, it's possible that the LBS did not use spoke prep when they rebuilt the wheel for you. if this is the case, they should rebuild the wheel either gratis, or at a reduced rate. IMO, they should not have charged you for the initial rebuild, it is pretty easy to get a labor credit, or even a warranty replacement from trek for things like that.
OneTinSloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-07, 04:51 PM   #5
rooftest
Despite all my rage, I am
Thread Starter
 
rooftest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Colnago C-50
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treefox
You mean the rim is floppy?
Yes - the rim is "totally" floppy. As far as moving it back and forth 5mm, it moves this amount without resistance. (I could move the front that far, but would need to push harder.) At any rate, there's about 10 times more side to side movement than on a "brand new" rim.

As far as loose spokes, I can't detect any. (When I had it rebuilt the first time, some spokes were loosed enough to be removed by hand.)

Another thing the LBS mentioned was that "steel spokes tend to flex with age, so this is normal." Which would mean these wheels have a useful life of about 2K miles (since the rebuild.) Any thoughts on that?
rooftest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-07, 05:21 PM   #6
supcom
You need a new bike
 
supcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 5,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooftest
Another thing the LBS mentioned was that "steel spokes tend to flex with age, so this is normal." Which would mean these wheels have a useful life of about 2K miles (since the rebuild.) Any thoughts on that?
No. This would mean that the person stating this doesn't know what he's talking about. It also means you should go to another bike shop.

While a wheel with 3500 miles might need to be trued and tensioned, a quality wheel should last much longer than 2000 miles.
supcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-07, 06:42 AM   #7
BHBiker
CERVEL-LIZED!
 
BHBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your LBS = Likes Bull Sh@* :-) :-) in my honest opinion only...

this guys pulling a dough on you, next he would say is buy a new set from him. " Looks like its time for you to upgrade to Krysiums now eh?!....hey by the way, I have a set on special...."


I suggest finding a new LBS that = Lends Better Service :-) Cheers!
BHBiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-07, 07:18 AM   #8
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
That's just not a stiff wheel, so it's going to do that. You should get the tension checked by a shop that services Bontragers. They're supposed to have really high tension according to the marketing literature. I've tightened a loose spoke for a freind, and his wheel didn't seem very high tension to me, but whatever.

FWIW, I have my 36h Deep-V in my office right now, and I can get that to move 3mm without pushing very hard. It's probably one of the stiffest solo rear road wheels on the forums (36h, 3x, 110kgf drive side, built by me).

Last edited by waterrockets; 03-27-07 at 08:40 AM.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-07, 10:39 AM   #9
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 11,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Sounds like loose bearings...
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-07, 12:53 PM   #10
Treefox
Young and unconcerned
 
Treefox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Merry Land
Bikes: Yeah, I got a few.
Posts: 4,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Sounds like loose bearings...
Yeah, that was my first thought - though I may be incorrectly interpreting 'flex'
Treefox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-07, 12:56 PM   #11
80vette
Gear Head
 
80vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampa, Fl., Dallas, Tx.
Bikes: 07' Colnago CLX, 04' Allez,03' KHS, 79' super leTour304
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is bunk ... your wheel is still under warranty ...... per the 1st reply try a different LBS.
80vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-07, 01:36 PM   #12
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 11,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Check out Damon Rinard's Wheel Stiffness test. You're looking at 1-3mm lateral flex on most wheels. If you really want laterally stiff wheels (which doesn't make sense since the load is radial anyway) you can build your own. Get heavy-duty 500gm+ 36-hole box-section rims; touring versions work well. Use large-flange hubs and lace them radially with heads-in orientation. From their test data, you'll end up with a wheel having less than 1mm deflection. It won't make you any faster than you are now though...
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-07, 07:12 PM   #13
rooftest
Despite all my rage, I am
Thread Starter
 
rooftest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Colnago C-50
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
UPDATE - I took it to another LBS, and the hub's shot. It wasn't wheel flex at all - a few of you that mentioned the bearings were on the right track.

Anyway, this LBS is more than happy to request a replacement hub from Botrager, and will rebuild the wheel for me for a good price.

Thanks for all your suggestions,
rooftest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-07, 09:02 PM   #14
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooftest
UPDATE - I took it to another LBS, and the hub's shot. It wasn't wheel flex at all - a few of you that mentioned the bearings were on the right track.

Anyway, this LBS is more than happy to request a replacement hub from Botrager, and will rebuild the wheel for me for a good price.

Thanks for all your suggestions,
That's a good find. Can't they just replace the bearings? I thought they were cartridge...
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-07, 02:48 PM   #15
C Mau
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Zurich / Bontrager

I bought the same bike last year with same wheelset. Every ride I had to retrue wheels. Those low spoke count wheels aren't made for bigger riders such as us. I am 6' 200ish pounds. I built up a set of wheels myself (mechanic) Ultegra hubs/DT Swiss RR 1.1 32 hole rims with DT Swiss spokes and brass nipples. Yes wheels are a tad heavy but haven't needed truing at all in 3000+ miles. And my bike rides and brakes far far better with this wheelset than the Bontragers.

Nothing beats a set of handbuilt wheels!!!! IMO
C Mau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-07, 01:16 AM   #16
rooftest
Despite all my rage, I am
Thread Starter
 
rooftest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Colnago C-50
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by C Mau
Nothing beats a set of handbuilt wheels!!!! IMO
I don't have a problem with truing anymore (after the first rebuild.) I'm way ahead of you on hand built wheels - because it came from the factory so crummy, I've got a hand-built one now.

I'm going to look into getting at least a stronger rear wheel later in the year.
rooftest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-07, 09:20 AM   #17
smurf hunter
Senior Member
 
smurf hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Bikes: 2006 LeMond Croix de Fer, 2005 Kona Dew Deluxe
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went through some factory wheels like that. I brought them in for numerous truings, broken spokes and finally paid the LBS to build me a set by hand. The new set only needed a minor truing about 1 month after they were built. Since then I've put 2500+ miles on them without issue.
smurf hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-07, 06:36 AM   #18
probable556
pedal head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHBiker
Your LBS = Likes Bull Sh@* :-) :-) in my honest opinion only...

this guys pulling a dough on you, next he would say is buy a new set from him. " Looks like its time for you to upgrade to Krysiums now eh?!....hey by the way, I have a set on special...."


I suggest finding a new LBS that = Lends Better Service :-) Cheers!
+1 Whats wrong with your shop? You buy a bike from them with a defecctive part and they won't help. I would just buy a new wheel online. You will get better service on ebay than your LBS.
probable556 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:02 AM.