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Old 03-31-07, 03:46 PM   #1
JunkYardBike
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Indexing compatibility: Veloce w/ Ultegra

Would a 9-speed Campagnolo Veloce long cage (triple) derailleur be index compatible with Ultegra 8 speed bar end shifters? I know I've heard of 10-speed components being a bit testy concerning compatibility. Is this true with the 9-speed series?
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Old 03-31-07, 06:37 PM   #2
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In friction mode they will work fine. They wil not work in index mode. Roger
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Old 03-31-07, 07:58 PM   #3
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I should have added that they would be used with a Sram 8 speed cassette. So in index mode, the Veloce rear derailleur would not be happy with the input from the Ultegra shifters? Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but my searches aren't yielding a definitive explanation.
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Old 03-31-07, 10:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JunkYardBike
I should have added that they would be used with a Sram 8 speed cassette. So in index mode, the Veloce rear derailleur would not be happy with the input from the Ultegra shifters? Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but my searches aren't yielding a definitive explanation.
Deraileurs are NOT indexed, only the shifters are, what happens is that the shifter pulls the cable a precise amount for each shift, as long as the limit screws are set properly, and the deraileur moves the correct amount given the required amount of cable pull, then it will work. Shimano and Sram move the same amount, given the same amount of cable pull, and the cog spacing is the same, I don't know about Campy, although if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur and a Campy deraileur that wasn't being used, I would certainly try it. However, if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur, and needed to buy a deraileur, I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
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Old 04-01-07, 03:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Wogsterca
Deraileurs are NOT indexed, only the shifters are, what happens is that the shifter pulls the cable a precise amount for each shift, as long as the limit screws are set properly, and the deraileur moves the correct amount given the required amount of cable pull, then it will work. Shimano and Sram move the same amount, given the same amount of cable pull, and the cog spacing is the same, I don't know about Campy, although if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur and a Campy deraileur that wasn't being used, I would certainly try it. However, if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur, and needed to buy a deraileur, I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
Touche, that was a fabulous response. Unfortunatley, no one is listening. For some reason half *ss fixes and crazy cures seem to rule here. The riders here derive some sinister satisfaction in making things work that shouldn't, myslef included.

Still, in the end,
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Originally Posted by Wogsterca
I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
Is good advice that no one will take.


Tim
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Old 04-01-07, 07:16 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Wogsterca
However, if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur, and needed to buy a deraileur, I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
But is there something inherent in the mechanical design that makes the use of a Campy derailleur on a Shimano system problematic, or are you speaking purely about aesthetics? Is the actuation ratio different in Campagnolo rear derailleurs than that in Shimano rear derailleurs? I understand about incompatibility between cog spacing and indexed shifter pull ratios, but this wouldn't be an issue.

I have a chance to get a Veloce cheap, I like its aesthetics, and don't mind mixing components aesthetically.

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Old 04-01-07, 11:22 AM   #7
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Campagnolo derailleurs have a different throw ratio from Shimano or SRAM. Meaning that the derailleurs do not move the same distance for the same amount of cable pull. Any Shimano derailleur (except pre-9-speed Dura-Ace) built over the last ~15 years will work, does not need to be 8-speed, a 9-speed derailleur would work perfectly. If you have a triple crankset you'll need a triple (long cage) derailleur.

I haven't worked with SRAM but it's my understanding that their derailleur throw ratio is different from either, even though the cog spacing is the same as Shimano.

Al
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Old 04-01-07, 11:26 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Al1943
Campagnolo derailleurs have a different throw ratio from Shimano or SRAM. Meaning that the derailleurs do not move the same distance for the same amount of cable pull. Any Shimano derailleur (except pre-9-speed Dura-Ace) built over the last ~15 years will work, does not need to be 8-speed, a 9-speed derailleur would work perfectly. If you have a triple crankset you'll need a triple (long cage) derailleur.

I haven't worked with SRAM but it's my understanding that their derailleur throw ratio is different from either, even though the cog spacing is the same as Shimano.

Al
+1 They make a product (Jtek shiftmate) to get the cable pull to match, but they cost around $35.

Last edited by barba; 04-01-07 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 04-01-07, 11:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Al1943
Campagnolo derailleurs have a different throw ratio from Shimano or SRAM. Meaning that the derailleurs do not move the same distance for the same amount of cable pull.
Thanks, that's what I was wondering. Sorry, again, for beating a dead horse.
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Old 04-01-07, 05:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cs1
Touche, that was a fabulous response. Unfortunatley, no one is listening. For some reason half *ss fixes and crazy cures seem to rule here. The riders here derive some sinister satisfaction in making things work that shouldn't, myslef included.

Still, in the end, Is good advice that no one will take.


Tim
I figured as much, the problem is that often you can make the wrong part, sorta, almost, not quite work properly, or buy the right part, and have it work perfectly out of the box I would much rather ride then futz with making a part try to work when it shouldn't.
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