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  1. #1
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Indexing compatibility: Veloce w/ Ultegra

    Would a 9-speed Campagnolo Veloce long cage (triple) derailleur be index compatible with Ultegra 8 speed bar end shifters? I know I've heard of 10-speed components being a bit testy concerning compatibility. Is this true with the 9-speed series?

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    In friction mode they will work fine. They wil not work in index mode. Roger

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    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    I should have added that they would be used with a Sram 8 speed cassette. So in index mode, the Veloce rear derailleur would not be happy with the input from the Ultegra shifters? Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but my searches aren't yielding a definitive explanation.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike
    I should have added that they would be used with a Sram 8 speed cassette. So in index mode, the Veloce rear derailleur would not be happy with the input from the Ultegra shifters? Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but my searches aren't yielding a definitive explanation.
    Deraileurs are NOT indexed, only the shifters are, what happens is that the shifter pulls the cable a precise amount for each shift, as long as the limit screws are set properly, and the deraileur moves the correct amount given the required amount of cable pull, then it will work. Shimano and Sram move the same amount, given the same amount of cable pull, and the cog spacing is the same, I don't know about Campy, although if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur and a Campy deraileur that wasn't being used, I would certainly try it. However, if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur, and needed to buy a deraileur, I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.

  5. #5
    cs1
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    Senior Member cs1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca
    Deraileurs are NOT indexed, only the shifters are, what happens is that the shifter pulls the cable a precise amount for each shift, as long as the limit screws are set properly, and the deraileur moves the correct amount given the required amount of cable pull, then it will work. Shimano and Sram move the same amount, given the same amount of cable pull, and the cog spacing is the same, I don't know about Campy, although if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur and a Campy deraileur that wasn't being used, I would certainly try it. However, if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur, and needed to buy a deraileur, I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
    Touche, that was a fabulous response. Unfortunatley, no one is listening. For some reason half *ss fixes and crazy cures seem to rule here. The riders here derive some sinister satisfaction in making things work that shouldn't, myslef included.

    Still, in the end,
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca
    I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
    Is good advice that no one will take.


    Tim
    1999 Waterford RSE-11, 1995 Waterford 1200, 1989 Specialized Rockhopper Comp
    1989 Raleigh Technium, 1989 Schwinn Traveler, 1986 Specialized Rockhopper
    1984 Specialized Stumpjumper, 1986 Specialized Stumpjumper and just way too many projects to list.

  6. #6
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca
    However, if I had a Shimano equipped bike that needed a deraileur, and needed to buy a deraileur, I would buy a Shimano to keep everything matching.
    But is there something inherent in the mechanical design that makes the use of a Campy derailleur on a Shimano system problematic, or are you speaking purely about aesthetics? Is the actuation ratio different in Campagnolo rear derailleurs than that in Shimano rear derailleurs? I understand about incompatibility between cog spacing and indexed shifter pull ratios, but this wouldn't be an issue.

    I have a chance to get a Veloce cheap, I like its aesthetics, and don't mind mixing components aesthetically.
    Last edited by JunkYardBike; 04-01-07 at 09:22 AM.

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    Campagnolo derailleurs have a different throw ratio from Shimano or SRAM. Meaning that the derailleurs do not move the same distance for the same amount of cable pull. Any Shimano derailleur (except pre-9-speed Dura-Ace) built over the last ~15 years will work, does not need to be 8-speed, a 9-speed derailleur would work perfectly. If you have a triple crankset you'll need a triple (long cage) derailleur.

    I haven't worked with SRAM but it's my understanding that their derailleur throw ratio is different from either, even though the cog spacing is the same as Shimano.

    Al

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    Senior Member barba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943
    Campagnolo derailleurs have a different throw ratio from Shimano or SRAM. Meaning that the derailleurs do not move the same distance for the same amount of cable pull. Any Shimano derailleur (except pre-9-speed Dura-Ace) built over the last ~15 years will work, does not need to be 8-speed, a 9-speed derailleur would work perfectly. If you have a triple crankset you'll need a triple (long cage) derailleur.

    I haven't worked with SRAM but it's my understanding that their derailleur throw ratio is different from either, even though the cog spacing is the same as Shimano.

    Al
    +1 They make a product (Jtek shiftmate) to get the cable pull to match, but they cost around $35.
    Last edited by barba; 04-01-07 at 06:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943
    Campagnolo derailleurs have a different throw ratio from Shimano or SRAM. Meaning that the derailleurs do not move the same distance for the same amount of cable pull.
    Thanks, that's what I was wondering. Sorry, again, for beating a dead horse.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1
    Touche, that was a fabulous response. Unfortunatley, no one is listening. For some reason half *ss fixes and crazy cures seem to rule here. The riders here derive some sinister satisfaction in making things work that shouldn't, myslef included.

    Still, in the end, Is good advice that no one will take.


    Tim
    I figured as much, the problem is that often you can make the wrong part, sorta, almost, not quite work properly, or buy the right part, and have it work perfectly out of the box I would much rather ride then futz with making a part try to work when it shouldn't.

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