Pomel

Does anyone know if a 10 speek crankset was ever made for a square taper shimano bottom bracket?
If so where could I find one new or used?

I have a 10 speed rear hub and shimano 105 3x10 (should be 2 or 3 ring compatable model ST-5600) break shifters now, but I have an 8 speed double crankset and I am having trouble with the chain falling off the outside of the crankset. Would a 9 speed crankset work if they made them for square taper?

I am stuck with the square taper as it is press fit (Klein) and a replacement might cost 200.00.

My LBS could not find any 10 speed cranks for square taper, hoping someone here may have some more info.

Thanks!

barba

I am not sure that your crank is the problem, but couldn't you just swap your chainrings for 9 or 10 speed versions?

operator

Chain falling off the outside is a limit screw problem on the FD. 2 minute fix.

Nessism

Agree!

Proximo

I was under the impression that modern cranks aren't specific to 8, 9 or 10 speed. The chainrings and rear sprockets are all the same thickness (3/32") with thinner chain sideplates as you move up in speeds allowing the rear sprockets to be packed tighter in the cassette. It's the chain, cassette and shifters that determine what speeds you have available. If you are talking a double versus triple crankset, then the front derailleur also comes into play.

I'm with the answers above that suggest looking at the FD adjustment.

cs1

Pretty much spot on for Shimano. Campy uses the same spider on all it's cranks. They scallop the big chainring to decrease the spacing on 10 sp though. With that said, I don't see a problem with using a 9 sp crank with 10 sp either Campy or Shimano. Good luck

Tim

Pomel

Thanks for the replies,

The LBS has adjusted the FD several times. They even put a new 105 FD on it. I have had it in 3 different times to have them try to get it working right. They have changed out front chainrings with new ones.

The problem seems to be that the adjustment can make it fall off the inside, outside or sometimes the chain would get stuck between the two chain rings and act as if it's freewheeling while the ramps are trying to lift the chain up to the big ring but can't quite do it.

The owner of the LBS thought the spacing of the two chainrings was a bit wide and tried to file the inside chain ring just a bit in order to stop the chain from getting stuck in the center. This has stopped the getting stuck in the center problem.

Should I just take it to another shop and see if they have better luck adjusting it.

Do 9 and 10 speed rings have a bit less space between them than 8 speed (where they mount to the crank arms) to accomadate the thinner chain?

Proximo

It's possible and even makes sense. If so, it should be easy to verify by measuring a 10sp crankset. If that's the problem, a 9sp chain and 9sp rear cassette may work. You can adjust the limit screws on the rear derailleur and still use the ST-6600 right brifter. Of course, you wouldn't have a 10th speed so if that's the motivation for the updated parts...

vpiuva

Been there, done that. Chainrings and sprockets are not the same thickness from 8-9-10 speed. Any crankset spider can be used. 8 speed Shimano thickness is 1.8mm, 9 speed is 1.78mm, 10 speed is 1.6mm. I assume you're running a 10 speed chain, and it may have problems with your 8 speed chainring. Look at your tooth profile, too, and compare it to a 10 speed ring at the LBS. The 10 speed will probably come to more of a point than the 8 speed rings you're now using. Watch your chain closely while on the stand and you'll see the top of the teeth actually rolling the chain off as it trys to seat. Your 8 may not be ramped and pinned, either. They do it for a reason.

adababy12

A little off subject, but this is a good example of being cautious when companies introduce proprietery
spec. 10, 15 years down the road a simple repair costs $200.

Pomel

Thanks again,
So it looks like my parts are compatable with the possible exception of my small chain ring. To clarify here is a list: FC-6400 Crankarms, FD-5600, RD-6600, ST-5600, 10 speed chain, 10 speed shimano cassette, FSA S-10 53 39 10x3 big chainring, Shimano-SG 39 small chainring. I think I may need to be sure I have a 10 speed smaller chainring.

If the above are indeed compatable what is the correct way to set up the FD?

The LBS set it up with the shifter in the lowest gear setting and all the slack out of the cable, I would shift to second and then have to push a bit more pressure shifting to the third gear in order to get the chain to ramp up to the big ring. This is creating the problem when I push a bit too far it flys off the outside (even though the LBS did the best they could to set the outter stop on the FD).

I am wondering if I should put the shifter in second gear and set the FD with the slack out and adjust it to shift to the big ring by clicking up to 3rd.

So when using the ST-5600 with two gears in the front should 2nd be the small ring and 3rd be the big, or should 1st be the small and 2nd be the big?

Thanks again for the suggestions, I am very close to finishing my build if I can just get this problem solved.

Pomel

It's also what happens when you buy a 91 Klein frameset with a press fit square taper Bottom Bracket because it would be cool to have, knowing full well I was limiting myself on the cranksets I could find to fit. Then trying to build it as a 10 speed instead of just sticking to an 8 speed. But if I can get this thing to shift well I will be a happy camper!

barba

Did your frame come with the crank you are using?

Pomel

No, only the bottom bracket. Here is a pic of it as I bought it.

With Dura Ace front hub and Ultegra rear 8 speed hub.

barba

Just a thought, but are you sure that the spindle length of your BB matches your crank? If not,the chain line might be off and be contributing to your problem dropping the chain.

Pomel

The LBS used to be a klein dealer, he had the tool to adjust the chian line as best he could, but I am not too sure how good that is. The rear shifts perfect in the top or bottom front ring, the only problem I am having is the set up to shift the front.

vpiuva

Since it seems you have 10 speed equipment, the next issue I've had before was when the curvature of my FD did not follow the curvature of my big ring (the heel was further above the ring than the front). I could not keep from having the same overshifting problem no matter how I adjusted the FD. I solved this one by turning the clamp of the FD 'forward' so that the heel stuck out from the rings, and putting a big allen wrench (10mm?) into the cage and bending it into place. Not for the faint of heart but my shifting problem was solved with equal distances along the curve.

Pomel

Here is a pic of how it looks now, and of the chainline.

vpiuva

(edit) Small front ring? Your crankset might be out a little but it's difficult to tell from a picture. Best way is measure with a ruler. The front is easy finding the center of the ST to measure to the midlle ring, the rear is a little harder, so to find the rear measure from the inside of your dropout to the 4th cog. Sutract that measurement from 65mm (half of your 130mm OLD) to find your rear chainline. And the first pic wasn't a close-up so I don't know if your FD has the spacing/curvature issue I talked about above.

Pomel

Thanks vpiuva,

I will look at that now.

What do you think about the 2/3 speed shifter on the two ring crank?
Should it be shifting from shifter postion 1 to 2 or 2 to 3?

The bike shop had the small ring set up in shift position 1 and I would shift up to two, then almost shift to 3 in order to coax it up onto the big ring.

Seems to me it should just be one shift position to do the job either way. Bending the FD as you sugested may be the answer to a full shift in one position change.

Thanks again,
Sounds like I am running into exactly the same trouble!

vpiuva

As far as 1/2 vs 2/3 shifting that's one I haven't personally tackled. But I do have one thing to think about - are you sure you're limiting out an actual shift and not a trim position? In any case, if it's not working with the 1/2 setup I would go ahead and try the 2/3 setup before I resorted to bending anything.

Pomel

Good advice!
I am going to by a repair stand now so I can adjust it better.

I assume all the limiting out is done on the FD, no adjustments on the shifters themselves right?
I am not sure what a trim position is unless it's the half steps between shifts.

I know the way they had it set up at the LBS with the shifter all the way out in it's lowest postion I had to shift up one full shift (2 clicks or one full upshift stroke) then shift up again but not all the way to the next click. He had it limited with the FD but If I pushed to hard I guess the FD would flex out and it would shift off on the outside. Not hard enough and it would not make it up to the big ring.

I don't see any reason why I can't get it set up to shift like a new bike, you know one shift and it goes up to the next gear! I think with some time and patients I will be able to get it working. Bending the FD may be the solution but like you said I will try the 2/3 first.

I am getting the stand at a different LBS, gonna take my bike up there and ask them what they think as well.

Thanks again,
I will let you know how it goes.

vpiuva

A trim position is that "half-step". It's the little click that barely moves the FD so you can keep the chain from rubbing the cage as you shift from smaller to larger rear cogs (and back). And you are correct, all limiting out is done with the limit screws on the FD, not the shifters.

And you will find that a bike stand is the best purchase you have ever made if you're doing your own work. Enjoy.

Pomel

Thanks for all the help!

I think I am going to have to work on my bike tomorrow and spend some time next week just trying to find that sweet spot where it works the best.

The mechanic at the shop, where I bought the stand, said I may want to try to find a 9 speed crankset. But that I should be able to get it to work right. It will just take getting just the right setting. He also said bending the FD may be needed to get it right.

I have an older Dura Ace 7700 FD I could try and maybe bend that one to see if it works instead of bending the new one.

I agree about the bike stand! It's a challenge to do just about any work on the bike without one.

cs1

I didn't read your original post well enought the first time. There is a way around your problem. You can send the frame off and have the BB Shell threaded to use Italian BB's. Here is a link: https://www.desperadocycles.com/Used_...Team_Super.htm

E-mail for details. Your frame is way too nice to sell. I would invest in the BB modification and use Italian BBs. You can use outboard 10 sp cranks then. Good luck

Tim