chizlr40

I'm sure it has been discussed before,but humor me.during a recent outing i had a flat.my glue had dried up but luckily the town i was near had a shop. picked up some glueless patches for repair. i thought they were slicker than ... well you know. got me home allright but after several days i got another leak. seems the patch had rolled off and my prior repair failed. should i stick to glue ons??

Bill Kapaun

How well did you clean the tube before you applied the patch?

Raiyn

Glueless get you home. Glued patches are what you use to make a lasting repair.
Having said that I've had glueless patches last for 2+ years without an issue, but it should be noted that I prepped the tube like I would have for a glued patch

TO11MTM

Glueless patches are nice.... I use them exclusively.

I find the following ritual works best:

Apply glueless patch per manufacturer's instructions. Inflate tube just a bit to where the tube takes shape.

Look at glueless patch closely... if you see any air bubbles forming, Press down HARD to remove them.

Put it in the tire once done, reapply.

I have some tubes still in action from before winter patched as such. Before I would be lucky to finish the ride with them.

aroundoz

If you can wait another minute, regular patches will vulcanize with the rubber and make your tube as good as new. I haven't had much luck w/ glueless but glad to hear others have. I do carry a pack of glueless in order to patch the tire in the event of a bad cut.

bellweatherman

I vote for glue.
Glueless patches are pretty bad for road bikes, because of the higher pressure tires. They might be okay for MTB, but for road they just suck.

BikeManDan

Glueless patches to get you home, would hate to whip out the rubber cement on the road or trail (even better, have a spare tube)

For long term permenant repair though, glue is the only option. My proven best method is to liberally scuff and sand the area around the puncture, more than necessary, and then apply the rubber cement to an area around the puncture, again more than necessary. Key is letting the glue dry for a good 5-10 minutes. Seems counter intuitive but it just works. Wait till it dries and then peel away the foil from the patch placing it onto the area. DO NOT REMOVE THE CLEAR PLASTIC, its meant to be there to prevent the patch from sticking to the tire. Every guide I've ever read says to just hold the patch tightly for a few minutes to secure it but I recommend getting a C clamp or any other type of clamp (I use a ratchet type) and clamp the tube to a table, desk, whatever so that there is pressure constantly and evenly applied to the patch.
After doing this that patch is never coming off, its now one with the tube

wethepeople

Instead of letting it dry for 5-10 minutes before applying the patch, I carry a lighter and dry it with that.

robo

I've been using glueless patches since, oh 1997 or so, and general haven't had any problem with them unless the cut is very large, or i was sloppy with the application.

I carry a few alcohol prep wipes (the kind people use to sterilize skin before an injection), and first wipe the tube with that to clean off any grease or talc, then rough the tube, clean it again, and then apply the patch. I have some tubes that must be 8 years old with glueless patches (Park GP-1's) that are still holding up fine. Mountain bike tubes, mind you. Never tried with high pressure tubes.

TallRider

I've been trying glueless patches since they first came out in 1995, and I have never had one form a permanently effective patch. Never. And I clean off the tube, sometimes sand it a bit, use rubbing sometimes have used rubbing alcohol to clean off whatever residue etc. I've tried different brands and tried them over the years, figuring that the technology may have improved over the years, but have had no difference in results.
I carry a spare (new) tube when I ride and have some glueless patches along in case I blow two leaks on a given ride (unlikely since I've had very few flats over the years of road-bike riding).

Of the people who've had consistently good luck with glueless, how many of you ride road bikes and how many ride mountain bikes?

DannoXYZ 

Here's a test, apply both a glueless and traditional patch+vulcanizing fluid to the same tube about 6" apart. Come back the next day and peel them off. Sure, the older patch requires sanding the tube and applying the glue and takes longer, but it's a permanent solution. You'll end up tearing the patch or the tyre on the glue patch. The glueless patch? Comes right off like a sticker.

The glueless patch will get you home, but you should peel it off and replace with a real patch+vulcanizing fluid.

operator

Glueless gets you home and gets you another 5 billion rides provided you

a) Use park GP-2's
b) install them right

I've had a 100% success rate with glueless patches - once it's on and it doesn't leak while you ride home then it'll never come off. It's definitley not as permanent (yes I know it vulcanizes and makes the tube stronger) as glue on patchces that you'd do at home, but this is fast and you don't have to wait.

Relying on patches to get home is a last resort. You should always be carrying 2x spare tubes with a patch kit anyways.

I've put them all on 700x23c road tubes with 100-120psi.

Complete waste of time. If the patch is already holding, why the eff would you take it out and redo it?

hotbike

I may go a bit OT, but it has to do with tire patch glue.

Back when I was in High School, some of the students were going through bags on the bikes on the bike rack in the parking lot. They were stealing the aluminum 1 oz tubes with the glue in them. They had found a way to get "high", by using the glue as an inhalant. (they were sniffing glue).

Back to the subject, I've had good luck and bad luck with glue patches and glueless patches.
I think it has to do with air temperature, and humidity, and what grade of rubber the tube company made the tube of (maybe natural vs synthetic rubber?).

I find the best liquid to clean a tube with is Naptha. The lighter fluid in a metal can is convenient.

But if it's a cold , damp day, it's more likely the patch won't stick.

I always have a spare tube or two back in my van. I don't trust patches.

John E

I have generally had much better luck with glue-on patches than with glueless, but perhaps the latter technology has improved over the years. I carry both in my under-the-saddle bag, along with a spare innertube.

Raiyn

1. Only kind I use
2. Apparently I must be able to do that properly, since the last one I had to patch lasted 2+ years until the stem failed

operator

Raiyn is my new hero

bellweatherman

It works for you because you only ride MTBs. On high pressure road tires, these things suck.

froze

Anyone who says glueless patches are to only get you home either hasn't ever used them, or used them incorrectly.

You still have to buff the tube as you would with glue on type; some folk assumed that step was eliminated. You then just press it on as hard as you can for about 30 seconds.

I had a road tube with 8 glueless patches on it, and those were put on during the first month of the tubes life. I then switched to Armadillo tires and my flats stopped, but that tube was used as a main tube and none of the patches gave up even after 5 years of use.

We had this discussion plenty of times. About 5 years ago this came up over at Bicycling Magazine forum and I went and tested a MTB tube by puncturing a 1/4 inch hole into the tube, and then patched with a Park GP2 Glueless patch and put the tire back onto the rim. I then placed the tire and rim into a trashcan and attached a long air hose with a remote trigger so I could fill the tire from behind a car for protection because I put 200 PSI into the tire!! The rim and tire sat like that in the trash can for 2 weeks at this pressure! I topped off the pressure about every other day. After 2 weeks I let the pressure out and rode the bike for about month everyday with no problems. But here's the crazy part (as if 200psi in a MTB tire isn't?), That tube with that patch IS STILL BEING USED on that MTB and STILL HOLDING AIR after 5 YEARS!!!

I've have never had a glueless patch fail and I've used plenty of them. I only use the Park brand so I can't comment on other brands and their reliability.

Edit: This same sort of conversations use to come up in the 60's when we use vulcanize with fire; and when the first glue on patches came on the scene people claimed they didn't hold, were no where near as good as fire vulcanization and blah blah blah just like here! The glue did the vulcanizing without the need for fire, so it was on just as good as the fire on's were. The same is true for Glueless patches.

TallRider

perhaps it's possible that there are batches of glueless patches with better and worse adhesive. Thing is, there are plenty of knowledgeable people who've chimed in on this thread with good experiences, and plenty with bad.

My experiences have always been bad. However, I noted them in my post as my experiences and asked people to note (as some have since, thanks) whether they were riding road or mtb. I'm trying to figure out variables that might account for the differences in people's experiences with these patches. As I noted above, I roughed up the area and then cleaned with rubbing alcohol (and let it dry off) before applying the glueless patches.

cascade168

Whether you use glueless or glued, this is a great method. Those alcohol wipes are cheap, can be found in any drug store, take up just about no room in your saddle bag, and make a world of difference in how permenant the patch becomes. Robo's method is right on an I have used it successfully many times with road tubes in the 100-120psi range and never had a failure. I have to agree with the people who are saying that if the glueless patches are failing you, then you're just not using them properly.

The key is getting the area clean and roughed up properly - for either type of patch.

froze

While there may be knowledgeable people on these forums, but I've ran into knowledgeable people who couldn't even put the glue on patches on correctly! I knew one guy who has ridden for 20+ years and he doesn't even know how to patch a tube! He takes a spare tube with him and replaces it when he flats then takes the flatted tube to an LBS for repair!!

And if your use to glue on patches and never used a glueless patch, you could very well do it incorrectly no matter how knowledgable you are. Then this leads to frustration and you blame the patch and never try it again.

cascade168

But, aren't you the same person that, not long ago, could not figure out how to loosen the clamps on STI shifters (it's right in the instructions, BTW)? You seem to like to chime in with an opinion on just about everything, but then get stumped by some of the simplest tasks. I think that's really interesting.

See my signature for more on this subject ...

bellweatherman

I'm going to have to back up Tim on this one. Glueless patches suck. Period. From my own experiences, I have never ever had good experiences with glueless patches. Ever. I have talked to many people who have tried both glueless and glued patches. The overwhelming consensus is that glueless patches are not good. The only place I hear people praising their so-called "effectiveness" is from a couple internet posters who are mainly patching them on low-pressure MTB tires.

TallRider

not sure people are reading this thread carefully:
1. froze is right that generally knowledgeable people can still make mistakes and think they're not. However, he implies that I was "led to frustration and blaming the patch and never try it again." As opposed to my posts, which detailed how I've applied the patches, and tried glueless a number of times over the years, never with luck.
2. bellweatherman says that people who have luck with glueless-patch durability are "a few internet posters with low-pressure mtb tires." While it's true that low-pressure tires will tax a patch less, some in this thread (e.g., operator) have specifically noted having good results with glueless patches using high-pressure road tires. That said, it does seem that the predominent consensus is against glueless patches. But not everybody's experience.

cascade168 cites an example where I'd asked about how to loosen the clamps on STI brake/shift levers. On a used bike, that didn't come with instructions, and I'd never removed STI levers from a bar before (none of my bikes have them). My experience had been only with brake levers without integrated shifting. For the record, these have the clamp-bolts accessible behind the lever (when you pull on it), unlike both STI and Campy Ergo levers, where you have to get an allen wrench underneath the rubber hood. Straightforward question from lack of experience, answered in one post if I remember correctly. Feel free to private-message me if you'd like to back up your general statement of my "getting stumped by the simplest of tasks."

cascade168

No need for private messaging. I have nothing to hide. I'll back up my statement right here.

I'd say that loosening the clamps on STI levers is extremely simple. Any fourteen year old kid that's built bikes for a week or two can do that. The user instructions are available to anyone with a computer and the ability to read. Anyone with a little curiosity should be able to poke around those shifters and find that big ole 5mm bolt head. How much simpler could it be? Getting glueless patches to adhere properly is also extremely simple. Trying to make it sound like there is good reason that they don't work for you is just defensive. There were several people that stated exactly what you have to do to be successful with glueless patches and you still feel the need to debate and rationalize. Maybe you should try following the good advice put forth and become successful yourself. You have been stumped by at least a couple of simple tasks. Is it that hard to admit?

One of the best things about a forum like this is that you can find out how to successfully get things done. Trying to substantiate why you can't is really silly. Just accept that you don't know it all and get on with it.

Also, if your going to use that "none of my bikes have them" rationalization, you should make sure that you preface all of your postings with that disclaimer. If your hands on knowledge of bikes is limited to the ones you own, then please be up front with that all the time, not just when it suits your needs.

I certainly don't know all there is to know about bikes - not even close - , but the difference between me and a lot of people - like yourself - is that I know enough to accept good advice and not try to shape the world around me. I also know when to stay out of discussions that I'm not qualified to weigh in on.

If I'm failing at something, then I want the recipe for success from someone who has it, and those are the moments when I know that I'm best served with being humble. That was one of the hardest lessons that I have learned in my life. Arguing with the people who are succeeding at a certain endevour is pointless.