jerkbag

Hi,

My pedals had some horizontal (parralell to the frame) play, and I managed to take my crank apart far enough (pulled pedal bars off) to see that there seems to be play with the axle itslef: i.e. as well as rotating it can move slightly side to side. Is there anything I can tighten to fix this, or is something permanently damaged? If it's the latter, do I need a whole new crackset or can I somehow replace the axle. To clarify: this is for a basic getting around old city bike -- I'm looking for the cheapest / easiest safe solution.

Thanks Alot!

Jerkbag

EDIT: Don't mean to bump, but I chaned the thread title to reflect what the question is actually about

tellyho

Depends on the pedal. Many pedals can be overhauled, in a similar manner to hubs (or old bottom brackets, for that matter). If there's a dustcap on the outside edge of the pedal you can pry off, you should be able to tighten up the nut on the inside. That probably won't solve your problem, but it might make you feel better.

What you'll probably have to do is pull the outside nut off and tighten up the one inside it. Then hold the inside one in place (needle-nose) while tightening the outside one.

And what you'll really probably have to do is pull the whole thing apart, clean, relube, and reassemble.

cny-bikeman

Need to clarify exactly what you are talking about. Pedals are only what your feet are on. They are attached to crank arms which in turn connect to the spindle or bottom bracket that goes through the frame. Now, which item has play. I have a feeling it's the crank, not the pedals.

jjvw

Jerkbag,

If it's the pedals, then you need to tighten its cones. If it's the bottom bracket, then you need to tighten its cup. You can probably fix the pedals if you have a decent socket set. I am guessing you will need to take the bike to your LBS to tighten the bottom bracket.

Go to the Park Tool website or sheldonbrown.com for repair tips.

jerkbag

yes it's the "spindle" I guess -- the short axle that goes through the frame, and the crank arms attach to either side -- this has a loose left to right play -- can it be tightened? I have a feeling what's happened is the "tunnel" this spindle sits in has become misshapen. Sorry for not having the terminology down.

thanks

jjvw

This is a bottom bracket issue. I would first assume it just needs to be tightened. Special tools are needed to remove the cranks in order to access the bottom bracket cups and spindle. Take to a bike shop and have it inspected. Hopefully you can just have it regreased and have it properly reassembled. The worst case senario is that it gets replaced.

If you really don't want to bring it in, then have you tried reaching in and tightening things by hand? It's better than nothing. The lockring can be tightened by carefully using a hammer and screwwdriver.

cny-bikeman

Well, I'm not sure that carefully using a hammer and screwdriver applies when one doesn't know the terminology yet. Too many things to go wrong or overlook on this one. Get thee to a bike shop or well versed bikie with tools!

jerkbag

Agreed -- but I'm trying to learn, and this is an old (i.e. not worth putting more than $50 in) bike

Anyway I used a crank extractor and - this is a sin I'm sure - a pipe wrench to loosen the lockring and I tightened the left bearing cone a bit. It's a little better but clearly the spindle channel has become mishappen. So I have two quesitons:

a) How safe is it right now? Just getting around type riding. Will the play in the crank spindle just progessivly get more annoying until I eventually replace it? Or will something terrible happen while I'm riding?

b) Do I get a new 3-piece crank or just the center part (the thing that houses the spindle and whatever it sits in)?

Thanks for all your help guys.

cny-bikeman

It's safe - worst that could happen is the bearing jams. The bearing surfaces are rough, and just like a potholed road it will become worse. If you have a 4 sided tapered spindle you can get an entire sealed assembly without paying an arm and a leg but also need tools to install it. You may be able to get old fashioned cup and ball and spindle but it may be hard to find a match. Getting the whole assembly is going to cost way more than $50

2372ighost

Read here

https://parktool.com/repair/byregion....ageField2.y=10

GCRyder

Be leery of opinions based on words alone from someone not conversant with bike nomenclature. Photos would help. The spindle does not run in a channel. It's supported by bearings at both ends and spans empty space between. So what are you calling a "spindle channel," and how is it "misshapen"? If what you're calling the "spindle channel" is the round metal part of the frame that the cups thread into, that's the "bottom bracket shell." Depending on its severity, and the metal involved, deformity there can be catastrophic. If "just getting around type riding" means gentle pedal pressure and very low speeds, it's probably safe enough to ride to the shop. I would not be subjecting it to much stress until you've been there for an "eyes on" opinion.

I don't mean to be or sound alarmist, but I can't visualize what you're trying to describe very well, and would not want you to rely on opinion you see here, only to have a BB cup break loose as you're pulling away from an intersection or something.

tellyho

+1 on terminology. If you're going to try to DIY, spend some time doing research on Sheldon Brown's site. You need to understand how a bottom bracket works before you can fix it.

jerkbag

Thanks -- I appreciate my "terminology" is confusing. Here's the clearest way I can explain it without jumping to any conclusions as to what the problem is.

a) Turn the bike upside down, remove the crank arms, align your eyes directly with the spindle.

b) As well as rotating (obviously) the spindle also has a bit of room to move left & right.

c) This happends (the left / right play) much more on the right (fixed cup) side, than the left.

d) Tightening the right cup makes it a little better, but there's no real progress.

As you can imagine this small amount of play translates into noticible left/right pedal movement as you're going.

Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks for your patience.

GCRyder

What you're describing are just the holes in the bottom bracket cups. The spindle is not supposed to make contact with them. It runs on, and is supported by, bearings that are rolling inside the cups. If the spindle has play, those bearings aren't tight enough on the cones of the spindle. You don't adjust this with the fixed, drive-side cup. The adjustment to tighten them is done with the adjustable cup on the non-drive side. From your description, it sounds like you've fully tightened the fixed cup, but still need to take out the slop by tightening the adjustable cup. Here is a link to Sheldon Brown's article showing how that is done. If the play can't be adjusted out with the adjustable cup, or if the spindle won't turn smoothly once the slop disappears, then the bearings are probably worn beyond their limits. Replacing them takes about 20 minutes, 22 ball bearings and a few globs of grease. I suspect that will be needed, since it sounds like the spindle has been running so loose that it's ground against the cup and enlarged the hole. But these are simple and surpisingly forgiving devices.

Of course, if you have a cartridge-style bottom bracket, the slop means you'll need to replace the bottom bracket. The article, and pages linked to it, will help with that, too.

DMF 

I realize that this thread isn't about pedal axles, but to add to the info in this post (and perhaps correct it a bit), the main cause of pedal axle "play" that I've run across is a munged bearing. The bearings in pedals are very small and take a lot of pounding. The inner races especially are subject to disintegration. Fortunately the inner race is part of the (one-piece) bearing assembly and it failure may leave the axle itself undamaged, so replacing the bearing will fix the problem. Unfortunately, replacement bearings aren't common. The ones I've replaced were taken from unwanted pedals (size seems common).

jerkbag

Thanks. I have a feeling the spindle has enlarged the hole, and I'll look into new bearings.

thanks everyone for their help.

jerkbag

I Just replaced the bearings, the old ones on the right side were a mangled mess -- everything works great now. Thanks!