JanMM

You can buy a hemostat at a hardware store or online (note previous link).

tellyho

"n" is algebra. You know, that stuff you learned in high school. Otherwise known as a variable. Stands in for a number when you don't have an exact number. In this case, the number "n" stands for is the number of balls that fit tightly in your bottom bracket/headset/hub race.

operator

Lol +1

bellweatherman

Thanks for the info and link for the hemostat, but the link I was requesting was for a definitive explanation of what "n" is in regards to ball bearings.

bellweatherman

I think there is a disagreement to what the "n" actually is. I understand what you are saying in that "n" is the number of ball bearings that fit perfectly on a race. Whereas Cascade168 on this thread (page 1, 9th post) says that n is the number of ball bearings that are actually one too many to fit perfectly on the race. Something he refers to as "jumble". Who is right?

Is "n" the number of ball bearings that will fit perfectly on a race? Or is "n" the number of ball bearings that are one too many from fitting perfectly on the race?

due ruote 

Agreed a hemostat is nice to have in the toolbox. I also like to use a magnet, esp. for removing the bearings. I have a couple small ones that came off an old ultrasonic toothbrush that have enough pull to pick up 4 or 5 bearings, easy. I also have a tool the size of a pen that telescopes to about 16". It has a magnet on the end. Very handy for all sorts of things, including retrieving bearings that have fallen under the bench.

Cadfael

Maybe I am paranoid... but back in the day... long ago, when I began to cycle in earnest to work and back, I was not very good at looking after my bike... and my BB ended up being totally shot at.

Maybe it was my fault for sure for not maintaining it... but the cage broke and the shards of it made a total mess of the cup and cones. Even now, I have stripped a BB to find one of the bearing has slipped from the cage... and THAT was the cause of the click! So I prefer loose bearings, simply because of that.. I do not want broken cages shredding up my hubs or BB cups and cones.

I have no idea about n1, or n2. But if 12 ball bearing will fit, I will use 11... and I have never had any issues or problems doing this. It works for me.

Does not 'n' mean negative... or 'negate'? Thus if 12 ball bearings will fit in a race... 'negate 1'... take one out! Must be summat Italian... and Italians are not only known for making fast cars.. but rather excellent bikes?

tellyho

I actually like the "jumble" argument, because it sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about. As opposed to me.

cascade168

The term "jumble" and the rest of my method comes right from Barnett's. I'm just paraphrasing. The way I am using "n" is that ["n" = the number of balls it takes to first jumble]. So "n-1" = the number of balls where the jumbling goes away and the balls seat in a perfect circle.

JanMM

the number of bikes that it is appropriate to own has been specified in the forums as n+1, where n is the number of bikes currently owned.

_beaver_

Pfff, you idiot. Either a magnet or a dab of grease are the best options when working with bearings, especially tiny ones. You really should leave the advice giving to people that actually know what they are talking about

barba

This hardly seems a matter that requires calling people an idiot.

wroomwroomoops

Are you kidding me? This is BF! You can ger flamed for anything, in here - just for misstyping "break" instead of "brake" you are called an idiot! But you know what? At the end of the day, we have cameradery - because what unites us is greater than what separates us: we all have in common the love for cycling (on singlespeeds with steel lugged frames stripped of decals - clearly, we can all agree on that).

For the OP:
Here is the best explanation about n-1 I've ever read. Highly recommended.

JanMM

One of my ambitions in life is to be a Village Idiot. I must be getting closer!
By the way, how do you place a bearing with a magnet?

JanMM

A dab of grease on a magnet?

Al.canoe

I prefer tweezers. They come in different lengths and can be designed to grab on compression or release. I find I have better control than with hemostats.

Al

JanMM

Yep, tweezers will work.

bellweatherman

_beaver_ was right about you.

BWT

How about a weak magnet? I use my screwdriver that has a weak magnetic tip. Perfect for holding the balls where I want them, and then I just knock them off with my finger. Usually* they stick in the grease where I want them. Obviously, this means you have to put a layer of grease down first. This also allows me to flip the hub and do the other side without putting the cone in and the balls stay put! For this to work, you have to press the balls down into the grease a bit too. You guys are smart, no matter what you say. I am sure you will figure it out.

*not always.

BWT

Cascasde, I am having a hard time understanding this. When I put in balls, I just put them in until no more will fit on the race. In other words, every ball I put in touches the race. Usually, there is a "smidgeon" of space between a couple of the balls when I am done. Does this mean I am doing n-1 right?

seeker333

HA. First time I laughed today. Thank you.

cascade168

Sounds like you've got it. When you're at "n-1" then all the balls fit with a little space (but, not enough for another ball) left over. If you have "n" balls in the race, when you try to test fit the race, cup, and balls, they are not going to sit in a perfect circle. The circle of balls will have a kink in it and that's what's meant by "jumbled". As you start from one ball and keep adding them (one at a time), the first occurence where the balls jumble is when you've got "n".

And, hopefully, that sticks a fork in this thread ;-)

JanMM

Yummmm....this thread smells done!

_beaver_

Reread the post
Do you have those hemostats pinched on to your brain?

_beaver_

Yeah, i agree with that. You can also coat the bearings before hand (especially tiny ones) with grease incase you drop one , it will help to keep it from bouncing &/or rolling away.