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  1. #1
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Cannot get my Campy Record to shift well

    Hey guys I really need your help. I have a brand new Record gruppo on this bike and I'm getting intermittent rear derailleur alignment issues. Sometimes it will be quiet and on the money and sometimes it sounds like it needs adjustment. I have spent hours on this damn thing. My high and low limits are set right. Its when I run in the middle of the cassette that I sometimes have issues. Could something be faulty in the ratcheting device of the Ergo shifters. The lever does swing over more than front derailleur before engaging. Anyways, HELP!

  2. #2
    * vpiuva's Avatar
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    How tight a bend does the last piece of housing have in it (the one connected to the RD)? If you cut this too short you can have shifting issues.

  3. #3
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vpiuva
    How tight a bend does the last piece of housing have in it (the one connected to the RD)? If you cut this too short you can have shifting issues.
    I left it longer than usual to avoid the above issue. How do I know if my brifter is working correctly?

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    * vpiuva's Avatar
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    Next, per Campy instructions, the RD alignment should be set while in the 4th (smallest) cog. That's the barrel adjustment. Is the 4th cog your baseline?

  5. #5
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vpiuva
    Next, per Campy instructions, the RD alignment should be set while in the 4th (smallest) cog. That's the barrel adjustment. Is the 4th cog your baseline?

    Yes I used the 4th cog as a baseline. I asked my friend to come over tonite to witness the issue. We checked the alignment indicators on the cassette and they all look like the Campy instructions except the smallest cog does not have any detent. It has a triangle indicator on it though. The we have is when we adjust on the 4th cog the smallest doesn't work. We adjust the smallest and the 4th doesn't work. How does the smallest cog align with the other cogs?

  6. #6
    * vpiuva's Avatar
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    Well, those were the easy ones. Not sure what you mean by detent vs triangle, I'd have to look at mine, but I'm assuming that's fine. Have you checked cog spacing to make sure that isn't an issue somehow? Maybe something off between 1 & 2 (or somewhere else) that's causing the spacing to be different here than between the other cogs?

  7. #7
    Senior Member rodrigaj's Avatar
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    What chain are you using? 5.9mm Campy untra narrow?

  8. #8
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodrigaj
    What chain are you using? 5.9mm Campy untra narrow?

    5.9mm ultra narrow. This is so frustrating. I knew I shouldn't have went with Campy stuff. Dura Ace is the bomb and its bullet proof. This is bull**** that after spending almost 7g's on this bike and it will not shift correctly. Even my expert biker friend who's also an engineer could not understand why the shift has a mind of its own.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jberenyi
    5.9mm ultra narrow. This is so frustrating. I knew I shouldn't have went with Campy stuff. Dura Ace is the bomb and its bullet proof. This is bull**** that after spending almost 7g's on this bike and it will not shift correctly. Even my expert biker friend who's also an engineer could not understand why the shift has a mind of its own.
    Is the cable properly routed where attached to the derailleur? Is the cassette torqued to specs? Derailleur alignment good? Something is not setup correctly.

    Record was the better choice, I have both Record and D-A.

    Al

  10. #10
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Have you had your derailleur hanger alignment checked? The closer together the rear cogs are spaced, the more critical hanger alignment becomes.

    ps Even if that doesn't work you still owe me one for refraining from making the all-to-obvious Shimano vs. Campy joke.

  11. #11
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    The hanger alignment will be checked tonite by the LBS. I noticed one foobar. We put the pre-crimped shifter casing on the cable on the frame side and not into the Ergo shifter. Campy makes a warning about this in the manual. Could this be the issue for me?

  12. #12
    * vpiuva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jberenyi
    The hanger alignment will be checked tonite by the LBS. I noticed one foobar. We put the pre-crimped shifter casing on the cable on the frame side and not into the Ergo shifter. Campy makes a warning about this in the manual. Could this be the issue for me?
    I can't imagine this making a difference except: 1. that Campy has warned against this; or 2. You didn't use any ferrule on this end. Question - did you put a ferrule on the cable end you inserted into the shifter? If you didn't, then that's a definite issue.

    Turn your housing around anyway; it's a free try.

  13. #13
    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jberenyi
    I noticed one foobar. We put the pre-crimped shifter casing on the cable on the frame side and not into the Ergo shifter. Campy makes a warning about this in the manual. Could this be the issue for me?
    I would reverse the cable housings. The housing ends must be squarely planted....although I'm not sure it'll make any difference......whether you install your own set of ferrules.

  14. #14
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vpiuva
    I can't imagine this making a difference except: 1. that Campy has warned against this; or 2. You didn't use any ferrule on this end. Question - did you put a ferrule on the cable end you inserted into the shifter? If you didn't, then that's a definite issue.

    Turn your housing around anyway; it's a free try.

    Just got back from the LBS and the alignment of my frame/dropouts/and hangar are dead nuts on. And yes I did not install the cables like the manual says. Apparently Campy makes specific warning to install the pre-crimped end into the Ergo shifter. This I did not do. In fact no casing was put on the end. I will turn it around tonite and report back on any improvements from this effort.

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    Just going from memory here, but when I installed Veloce on one of my bikes, I seem to remember that the pre-crimped end of the housing has lube, and the other side doesn't. I think this is to reduce friction around the tight bend on the shoulders of the handlebars. In addition to poor seating in the Ergo lever with no ferrule, this might add enough friction to cause a problem, especially if the unferruled end isn't completely clean of burrs, etc. Pure conjecture on my part.

  16. #16
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Just did the cable fix with the pre-crimped end in the Ergo shifter. NO CHANGE. I am completely stumped by this and bumming big time. I have over $6500 in this bike and it will not track correctly. I witnessed it myself when the LBS checked the hangar alignment and it was spot on all the way around. Short of selling my gruppo on Ebay and going Dura-Ace I don't know what else to do.

  17. #17
    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943
    Is the cable properly routed where attached to the derailleur?
    I would also make sure of this. If the cable is not seated in the groove it will not index properly. This is easy to miss sometimes. It's happened to me before.

  18. #18
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Campy issues

    I've heard this a lot. First thing to check is that you lockring AND rear derailleur are torqued to spec. Believe me, it does make a difference. I see that someone already mentioned that the cable housing from the chain stay to the der needs to be a bit longer than Japanese brands.

    When you installed the shifters, did you install the cables/housing and adjust the der BEFORE taping the bars? If the housings weren't 100% seated before you taped the cables down, this could also cause the trouble you are having.

    You also need to consider this: Japanese brands are designed to work best right out of the box. They are smooth as silk (no pun intended) right away. They then deteriorate with use.
    Campy needs to be broken in. My Record did the same thing for the first 2000-3000km. It was a bit chattery but shifted ok. After that it became smoother and actually shifted better. Campy feels that stuff needs to mate and that performance will actually INCREASE with a bit of use. Ever wonder why you still see guys riding 15 year old Campy stuff but need to replace you DA shifters every second season? That's why.

    Another good point I saw was to check your hanger alignment. If you have checked all those things and the shifting works but is a wee bit noisy, be patient and ride it out.

  19. #19
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
    First thing to check is that your lockring AND rear derailleur are torqued to spec.

    When you installed the shifters, did you install the cables/housing and adjust the der BEFORE taping the bars?

    Another good point I saw was to check your hanger alignment. If you have checked all those things and the shifting works but is a wee bit noisy, be patient and ride it out.
    In ref to the above, not sure what you mean by "lock ring" but the rear derailleur is torqued to spec. The shifters were adjusted before taping and triple checked for this condition of seating. The hangar was checked yesterday and was dead on.

    Is there a break-in period for these rear derailleurs? It always seems to stick once in a while and sound like its mistracking. Not all the time but sometimes. Is this normal on new Campy stuff and I just need to be patient or what?

  20. #20
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    I'm following this thread with interest. My bike has new centaur stuff & chorus shifters. I have a similar problem. There is an occasional auto-shift or mis-shift around the 3rd or 4th easiest gear. If I clean and lube everything and adjust the derailleur, it'll work flawlessly for 30 miles or so. However, this is not a very satisfactory state of affairs. I had my derailleur hanger checked at the lbs, and they checked the adjustment, and lubed the back section of cable. The problem was not fixed. I'm running a campy wipperman chain, which is too wide. I'm going to try a campy or kmc chain.
    I don't think this is a breaking in issue, as I have about 1500 miles or so on it, and the issue does not seem to be chaingin at all.
    B/t/w - the lock ring is holding the cassette on. I don't know that too much torque would compress anything. Too little would be an obvious problem. Dirt between any of the cogs would be an obvious problem.
    I found out yesterday that my pannier just touches the top of the cable loop (going into the rear derailleur). Perhaps that touches when I get to certain gears. In any case, I'm currently assuming that the problem is with the installer (myself) and not the equipment.
    Here's a question for those w/ more experience though.
    Is the wipperman campy chain working well with the ultra narrow (2007) gear for other people?

  21. #21
    Senior Member Surferbruce's Avatar
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    i have a wipperman on one bike (06 cenTAUR) that works ok but i do get sluggish upshifting occasionally, on a new build i went with a record ultra narrow chain and it is smooth as silk. i asked for the kmc at the shop, and the mechanic was just like "why? listen...campy likes campy likes campy!!" i said i liked the quicklink etc. he just handed me a record chain and said not to take it off unless i was changing chains, that theres no real good reason. so, i took his word and am glad i did. when i wear the wipperman a little more it's outta there for an ultranarrow chain.

  22. #22
    Senior Member jberenyi's Avatar
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    I just spoke with the most experienced Campy mechanic in the state. His inventory of bikes is 90% Campy. His comment to me is my cabling is the issue ( barring frame alignment issues). He said a kink or bad cutting of the cable or jacket is classic for this symptom. Too many people use a grinder to square the end of the cable and not a file. File is the only way to go he said because there is no heat build up on the jacket. He emphasized this very much. Low and behold I used a grinder. So I'm going to start over with a new set of cables and wires. I will report back later.

  23. #23
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Wow, what a trip we've taken. Boy I can't wait until the damned manufacturers come out with 11-speed crap so we'll increase our shifter sensitivity by another 10%. FWIW, I'm riding 7-year-old 9-spd DA, and it's just now starting to get sticky shifting (but it's not going to make it 15 years, as claimed of campy above).

  24. #24
    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    My mid-nineties Record 8 speed is still as crisp as ever......

  25. #25
    Senior Member DanteB's Avatar
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    I've used Campy Record for the last 38,000 +/- miles and had no problems. I've had the shifters wearout and it costs me about $40 per shifter to rebuild, a lot cheaper then replacing them. I get about 10,000 miles on the rear shifter and 25,000 miles on the front.
    Make mine a double!

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