Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-20-07, 05:18 PM   #1
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cannot get my Campy Record to shift well

Hey guys I really need your help. I have a brand new Record gruppo on this bike and I'm getting intermittent rear derailleur alignment issues. Sometimes it will be quiet and on the money and sometimes it sounds like it needs adjustment. I have spent hours on this damn thing. My high and low limits are set right. Its when I run in the middle of the cassette that I sometimes have issues. Could something be faulty in the ratcheting device of the Ergo shifters. The lever does swing over more than front derailleur before engaging. Anyways, HELP!
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-07, 06:31 PM   #2
vpiuva
*
 
vpiuva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How tight a bend does the last piece of housing have in it (the one connected to the RD)? If you cut this too short you can have shifting issues.
vpiuva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-07, 07:03 PM   #3
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpiuva
How tight a bend does the last piece of housing have in it (the one connected to the RD)? If you cut this too short you can have shifting issues.
I left it longer than usual to avoid the above issue. How do I know if my brifter is working correctly?
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-07, 08:48 PM   #4
vpiuva
*
 
vpiuva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Next, per Campy instructions, the RD alignment should be set while in the 4th (smallest) cog. That's the barrel adjustment. Is the 4th cog your baseline?
vpiuva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-07, 09:56 PM   #5
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpiuva
Next, per Campy instructions, the RD alignment should be set while in the 4th (smallest) cog. That's the barrel adjustment. Is the 4th cog your baseline?

Yes I used the 4th cog as a baseline. I asked my friend to come over tonite to witness the issue. We checked the alignment indicators on the cassette and they all look like the Campy instructions except the smallest cog does not have any detent. It has a triangle indicator on it though. The we have is when we adjust on the 4th cog the smallest doesn't work. We adjust the smallest and the 4th doesn't work. How does the smallest cog align with the other cogs?
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 04:54 AM   #6
vpiuva
*
 
vpiuva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, those were the easy ones. Not sure what you mean by detent vs triangle, I'd have to look at mine, but I'm assuming that's fine. Have you checked cog spacing to make sure that isn't an issue somehow? Maybe something off between 1 & 2 (or somewhere else) that's causing the spacing to be different here than between the other cogs?
vpiuva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 05:14 AM   #7
rodrigaj
Senior Member
 
rodrigaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Bikes:
Posts: 1,126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What chain are you using? 5.9mm Campy untra narrow?
rodrigaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 06:03 AM   #8
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodrigaj
What chain are you using? 5.9mm Campy untra narrow?

5.9mm ultra narrow. This is so frustrating. I knew I shouldn't have went with Campy stuff. Dura Ace is the bomb and its bullet proof. This is bull**** that after spending almost 7g's on this bike and it will not shift correctly. Even my expert biker friend who's also an engineer could not understand why the shift has a mind of its own.
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 08:18 AM   #9
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jberenyi
5.9mm ultra narrow. This is so frustrating. I knew I shouldn't have went with Campy stuff. Dura Ace is the bomb and its bullet proof. This is bull**** that after spending almost 7g's on this bike and it will not shift correctly. Even my expert biker friend who's also an engineer could not understand why the shift has a mind of its own.
Is the cable properly routed where attached to the derailleur? Is the cassette torqued to specs? Derailleur alignment good? Something is not setup correctly.

Record was the better choice, I have both Record and D-A.

Al
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 09:44 AM   #10
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,612
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Have you had your derailleur hanger alignment checked? The closer together the rear cogs are spaced, the more critical hanger alignment becomes.

ps Even if that doesn't work you still owe me one for refraining from making the all-to-obvious Shimano vs. Campy joke.
Retro Grouch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 03:46 PM   #11
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The hanger alignment will be checked tonite by the LBS. I noticed one foobar. We put the pre-crimped shifter casing on the cable on the frame side and not into the Ergo shifter. Campy makes a warning about this in the manual. Could this be the issue for me?
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 04:15 PM   #12
vpiuva
*
 
vpiuva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jberenyi
The hanger alignment will be checked tonite by the LBS. I noticed one foobar. We put the pre-crimped shifter casing on the cable on the frame side and not into the Ergo shifter. Campy makes a warning about this in the manual. Could this be the issue for me?
I can't imagine this making a difference except: 1. that Campy has warned against this; or 2. You didn't use any ferrule on this end. Question - did you put a ferrule on the cable end you inserted into the shifter? If you didn't, then that's a definite issue.

Turn your housing around anyway; it's a free try.
vpiuva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 04:16 PM   #13
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jberenyi
I noticed one foobar. We put the pre-crimped shifter casing on the cable on the frame side and not into the Ergo shifter. Campy makes a warning about this in the manual. Could this be the issue for me?
I would reverse the cable housings. The housing ends must be squarely planted....although I'm not sure it'll make any difference......whether you install your own set of ferrules.
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 06:42 PM   #14
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpiuva
I can't imagine this making a difference except: 1. that Campy has warned against this; or 2. You didn't use any ferrule on this end. Question - did you put a ferrule on the cable end you inserted into the shifter? If you didn't, then that's a definite issue.

Turn your housing around anyway; it's a free try.

Just got back from the LBS and the alignment of my frame/dropouts/and hangar are dead nuts on. And yes I did not install the cables like the manual says. Apparently Campy makes specific warning to install the pre-crimped end into the Ergo shifter. This I did not do. In fact no casing was put on the end. I will turn it around tonite and report back on any improvements from this effort.
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 07:05 PM   #15
justinb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just going from memory here, but when I installed Veloce on one of my bikes, I seem to remember that the pre-crimped end of the housing has lube, and the other side doesn't. I think this is to reduce friction around the tight bend on the shoulders of the handlebars. In addition to poor seating in the Ergo lever with no ferrule, this might add enough friction to cause a problem, especially if the unferruled end isn't completely clean of burrs, etc. Pure conjecture on my part.
justinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 08:24 PM   #16
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just did the cable fix with the pre-crimped end in the Ergo shifter. NO CHANGE. I am completely stumped by this and bumming big time. I have over $6500 in this bike and it will not track correctly. I witnessed it myself when the LBS checked the hangar alignment and it was spot on all the way around. Short of selling my gruppo on Ebay and going Dura-Ace I don't know what else to do.
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-07, 08:33 PM   #17
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943
Is the cable properly routed where attached to the derailleur?
I would also make sure of this. If the cable is not seated in the groove it will not index properly. This is easy to miss sometimes. It's happened to me before.
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 04:04 AM   #18
Bob Dopolina 
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Posts: 9,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Campy issues

I've heard this a lot. First thing to check is that you lockring AND rear derailleur are torqued to spec. Believe me, it does make a difference. I see that someone already mentioned that the cable housing from the chain stay to the der needs to be a bit longer than Japanese brands.

When you installed the shifters, did you install the cables/housing and adjust the der BEFORE taping the bars? If the housings weren't 100% seated before you taped the cables down, this could also cause the trouble you are having.

You also need to consider this: Japanese brands are designed to work best right out of the box. They are smooth as silk (no pun intended) right away. They then deteriorate with use.
Campy needs to be broken in. My Record did the same thing for the first 2000-3000km. It was a bit chattery but shifted ok. After that it became smoother and actually shifted better. Campy feels that stuff needs to mate and that performance will actually INCREASE with a bit of use. Ever wonder why you still see guys riding 15 year old Campy stuff but need to replace you DA shifters every second season? That's why.

Another good point I saw was to check your hanger alignment. If you have checked all those things and the shifting works but is a wee bit noisy, be patient and ride it out.
Bob Dopolina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 06:57 AM   #19
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
First thing to check is that your lockring AND rear derailleur are torqued to spec.

When you installed the shifters, did you install the cables/housing and adjust the der BEFORE taping the bars?

Another good point I saw was to check your hanger alignment. If you have checked all those things and the shifting works but is a wee bit noisy, be patient and ride it out.
In ref to the above, not sure what you mean by "lock ring" but the rear derailleur is torqued to spec. The shifters were adjusted before taping and triple checked for this condition of seating. The hangar was checked yesterday and was dead on.

Is there a break-in period for these rear derailleurs? It always seems to stick once in a while and sound like its mistracking. Not all the time but sometimes. Is this normal on new Campy stuff and I just need to be patient or what?
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 08:54 AM   #20
yes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm following this thread with interest. My bike has new centaur stuff & chorus shifters. I have a similar problem. There is an occasional auto-shift or mis-shift around the 3rd or 4th easiest gear. If I clean and lube everything and adjust the derailleur, it'll work flawlessly for 30 miles or so. However, this is not a very satisfactory state of affairs. I had my derailleur hanger checked at the lbs, and they checked the adjustment, and lubed the back section of cable. The problem was not fixed. I'm running a campy wipperman chain, which is too wide. I'm going to try a campy or kmc chain.
I don't think this is a breaking in issue, as I have about 1500 miles or so on it, and the issue does not seem to be chaingin at all.
B/t/w - the lock ring is holding the cassette on. I don't know that too much torque would compress anything. Too little would be an obvious problem. Dirt between any of the cogs would be an obvious problem.
I found out yesterday that my pannier just touches the top of the cable loop (going into the rear derailleur). Perhaps that touches when I get to certain gears. In any case, I'm currently assuming that the problem is with the installer (myself) and not the equipment.
Here's a question for those w/ more experience though.
Is the wipperman campy chain working well with the ultra narrow (2007) gear for other people?
yes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 10:18 AM   #21
Surferbruce
Senior Member
 
Surferbruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los Angeles/Aveyron France
Bikes:
Posts: 5,308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i have a wipperman on one bike (06 cenTAUR) that works ok but i do get sluggish upshifting occasionally, on a new build i went with a record ultra narrow chain and it is smooth as silk. i asked for the kmc at the shop, and the mechanic was just like "why? listen...campy likes campy likes campy!!" i said i liked the quicklink etc. he just handed me a record chain and said not to take it off unless i was changing chains, that theres no real good reason. so, i took his word and am glad i did. when i wear the wipperman a little more it's outta there for an ultranarrow chain.
Surferbruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 12:06 PM   #22
jberenyi
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jberenyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Haven, Utah
Bikes: Lynskey Level 3 Custom, De Bernardi SLX, Felt F1C, Burley Duet Tandem
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just spoke with the most experienced Campy mechanic in the state. His inventory of bikes is 90% Campy. His comment to me is my cabling is the issue ( barring frame alignment issues). He said a kink or bad cutting of the cable or jacket is classic for this symptom. Too many people use a grinder to square the end of the cable and not a file. File is the only way to go he said because there is no heat build up on the jacket. He emphasized this very much. Low and behold I used a grinder. So I'm going to start over with a new set of cables and wires. I will report back later.
jberenyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 12:42 PM   #23
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Wow, what a trip we've taken. Boy I can't wait until the damned manufacturers come out with 11-speed crap so we'll increase our shifter sensitivity by another 10%. FWIW, I'm riding 7-year-old 9-spd DA, and it's just now starting to get sticky shifting (but it's not going to make it 15 years, as claimed of campy above).
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 12:45 PM   #24
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
My mid-nineties Record 8 speed is still as crisp as ever......
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-07, 01:19 PM   #25
DanteB
Senior Member
 
DanteB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bakersfield, Host of the 2012 ToC ITT
Bikes: Waterford 2200
Posts: 1,747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've used Campy Record for the last 38,000 +/- miles and had no problems. I've had the shifters wearout and it costs me about $40 per shifter to rebuild, a lot cheaper then replacing them. I get about 10,000 miles on the rear shifter and 25,000 miles on the front.
__________________
Make mine a double!
DanteB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:09 PM.