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  1. #1
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    how bad is a V-brake lever with sidepulls?

    I've got these nifty 3x8 rapidfire shifters I want to use on my daughter's bike because she fonds the twist shifters difficult to use, and similar rapidfire shifters worked great for her on a previous bike. the problem is these shifters come with integrated V-brake levers, and she has side-pull brakes. I know you shouldn't use V brakes with conventional levers, but howsabout the other way around? I don't want to sacrifice braking for shifting, so if the answer is that they don't work well with sidepulls I won't use them. Thanks



  2. #2
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    "Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but due to their lower mechanical advantage you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either. "

    from this article- http://sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html#ma

  3. #3
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    a strong adult might be able to get away with it, but not a child.

  4. #4
    Senior Member FlatFender's Avatar
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    get an inline travel agent.
    problem solved.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
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    If you can setup the lever as a cantilever you will have no problems. Check to see if the brake levers have a slot for V and Canti brakes and set them up as though you were using cantis. I setup a bike with flatbars and used flat bar levers from performance with the setable option. If they are V brake only then the answer is an unequivocal NO!

  6. #6
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Meh. It's not worth it to add a travel agent to this setup. I don't like kludges, and whiler the rider in question is indeed a lightweight, the lack of gorilla-like paws is the ***** reason for switching shifters in the first place. Personally I'd rather she not be able to shift than not be able to stop. so I'll hold out until I find some suitable shifters minus the brake levers.. Thanks for all your input.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlatFender View Post
    get an inline travel agent.
    problem solved.
    Or 3 dollar aero levers.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Or 3 dollar aero levers.
    No that doesn't even BEGIN to solve my problem which is that the shifters I want to use have integrated V-brake levers. I've already got good levers that work fine, but not with the shifters I want to use. The only good solution I can see is to save those levers for a bike with V-brakes, and find myself a nice set of shifter pods without integrated levers for this bike.

  9. #9
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattface View Post
    The only good solution I can see is to save those levers for a bike with V-brakes, and find myself a nice set of shifter pods without integrated levers for this bike.
    Here's some that are worth looking into. I wish there was a pic, but I suspect these are similar to the shifters in your original post, minus the brake levers. The price sure looks good-

    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...%2D%20Mountain

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sci-Fi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlatFender View Post
    get an inline travel agent.
    problem solved.
    Don't need a travel agent with V-brake levers, it's the other way around. V-brake levers is going to pull more cable and many have used them successfully with other brake systems. But YMMV.

  11. #11
    Senior Member FlatFender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sci-Fi View Post
    Don't need a travel agent with V-brake levers, it's the other way around. V-brake levers is going to pull more cable and many have used them successfully with other brake systems. But YMMV.
    the new ones work both ways.

  12. #12
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    This is the (nearly) exact topic I was going to search the forum for. I want to replace my front V-brake, but I'd like to consider all brake options. My brake levers (Tektro RS360A) allow you to move the hardware that holds the cable inward toward the handlebar, increasing leverage at the lever and reducing cable pull. Is this intended for canti/mini-V/caliper compatibility, or simply adjusting standard V-brake leverage to personal preference?

  13. #13
    Senior Member FlatFender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renny View Post
    This is the (nearly) exact topic I was going to search the forum for. I want to replace my front V-brake, but I'd like to consider all brake options. My brake levers (Tektro RS360A) allow you to move the hardware that holds the cable inward toward the handlebar, increasing leverage at the lever and reducing cable pull. Is this intended for canti/mini-V/caliper compatibility, or simply adjusting standard V-brake leverage to personal preference?
    thats what its for!

  14. #14
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    Try a dual pivot caliper to give her more advantage, I've found these a great choice on road bikes for young ones.

    Agree the integrated levers are the best for kids the seperate brake levers just dont come around as far. I'm suprised she is having trouble with the twistgrip has she used rapidfires yet? The best MTB setup I found was the Shimano Revo with integrated lever as I found junior was riding with two fingertips trying to shift the rapid fire lever.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlatFender View Post
    thats what its for!
    Both? I'll probably still just go with a Single Digit 7, but ignorant minds demand to know.

  16. #16
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Here's some that are worth looking into. I wish there was a pic, but I suspect these are similar to the shifters in your original post, minus the brake levers. The price sure looks good-

    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...%2D%20Mountain
    Yes the price DOES look good, that's why I bought them. Those levers ARE the reason for starting this thread in the first place. Imagine how annoyed I was when I got them and discovered that they came with integrated V-brake levers. I wrote to Nashbar, and told them they really SHOULD mention that important detail. I guess they really don't care if their product descriptions are accurate.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattface View Post
    Meh. It's not worth it to add a travel agent to this setup. I don't like kludges,....
    Actually the Travel Agent is a very useful device for making otherwise incompatible brakes and levers work together properly. I certainly don't consider them a kludge.

    For example, I have a Jtek Shiftmate (a similar dual pulley cable travel modifier) on a bike with Campy shifters and a Shimano rear derailleur and cassette. It works wonderfully so how is that a kludge?

  18. #18
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Actually the Travel Agent is a very useful device for making otherwise incompatible brakes and levers work together properly. I certainly don't consider them a kludge.

    For example, I have a Jtek Shiftmate (a similar dual pulley cable travel modifier) on a bike with Campy shifters and a Shimano rear derailleur and cassette. It works wonderfully so how is that a kludge?
    Using an adapter to make 2 incompatible devices work together is the very definition of a kludge. It might in fact work very well, but in most cases it won't work better than using compatible parts in the first place. It adds weight and complexity for what gain? In your case perhaps you like you Campy shifters better than Shimano ones and, so perhaps it is worth it to spend $25 for a kludge to make your bike work how you want it, but I don't prefer V-brake levers to conventional ones.

    Look at that picture of my daughters front brake, then explain to me how adding this thing would be anything other than kludgy. I suppose it would be one thing if I couldn't GET compatible levers, but using the correct lever for the brake is far preferable to adding a pulley to the top of the brake caliper that sends the brake cable off at an odd direction. The only reason I would consider doing it would be to save money, and spending over $50 to make some $12 shifters work makes no sense at all.

    Last edited by mattface; 07-25-07 at 07:47 AM.

  19. #19
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattface View Post
    Yes the price DOES look good, that's why I bought them. Those levers ARE the reason for starting this thread in the first place. Imagine how annoyed I was when I got them and discovered that they came with integrated V-brake levers. I wrote to Nashbar, and told them they really SHOULD mention that important detail. I guess they really don't care if their product descriptions are accurate.
    I was just trying to help, I had no way to know those were v-brake lever/shifters. I can understand your frustration, but again, I had no way to know that your pic was of that very item. And I can think of a much nicer way of informing me of it than the way you did in the above post. Good luck with your project-

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattface View Post
    Using an adapter to make 2 incompatible devices work together is the very definition of a kludge. It might in fact work very well, but in most cases it won't work better than using compatible parts in the first place. It adds weight and complexity for what gain? In your case perhaps you like you Campy shifters better than Shimano ones and, so perhaps it is worth it to spend $25 for a kludge to make your bike work how you want it, but I don't prefer V-brake levers to conventional ones.
    I don't think that is a very good definition of kludgy. In your definition, anything that lets two or more things work together is a kludge. I.e. knobs, transformers, all interconnects, etc. Something more like "A clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem" would be appropriate. I don't know what is clumsy about the solution in that it works. From an engineering standpoint it is rather elegant. Aesthetically it is lacking but the device itself is quite cool, expensive but cool. You can get many gains from adapters. They can save money by not having to buy something new or by allowing the use of a higher reliability part. They can allow you to use a part that can do more than the compatible part. There are any number of reasons that you are using the adapters you currently use.

    7 Speed pods

    How do you think she would do with thumbshifters?
    Last edited by masiman; 07-25-07 at 09:28 AM.

  21. #21
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    Also, if you don't like the 7 speed shifter options, you can use 8 speed shifters. Same spacing, you'll just want to adjust it so that one stop, preferably 8, is blocked.

  22. #22
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masiman View Post
    I don't think that is a very good definition of kludgy. In your definition, anything that lets two or more things work together is a kludge. I.e. knobs, transformers, all interconnects, etc. Something more like "A clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem" would be appropriate. I don't know what is clumsy about the solution in that it works. From an engineering standpoint it is rather elegant. Aesthetically it is lacking but the device itself is quite cool, expensive but cool. You can get many gains from adapters. They can save money by not having to buy something new or by allowing the use of a higher reliability part. They can allow you to use a part that can do more than the compatible part. There are any number of reasons that you are using the adapters you currently use.

    7 Speed pods

    How do you think she would do with thumbshifters?
    While a travel Agent may well be an elegant solution so some problems I think it a very inelegant solution to this one. Why use an expensive adapter when the correct shifters are inexpensive and would negate the need for ANY adapter?

    7 speed shifters would necessitate a different cassette, and spacers (another kludge) on the cassette., all to have a 7 speed drivetrain on a bike that already has 8. Why would I want that?

    Also she had thumbshifters 2 bikes back, and her previous one had rapidfire shifters exactly like the ones I have now. Of the three shifter types the rapidfire shifters were by far the easiest for her to use. Allowing her for the first time to shift while riding instead of having to stop, shift and continue. I would recommend them for anyone, but especially for those who are timid about learning to shift, and or those for whom hand strength or coordination makes shifting with other systems difficult. Twist shifters SEEM beautifully simple, but in practice I find them lacking.
    Last edited by mattface; 07-25-07 at 10:49 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masiman View Post
    Also, if you don't like the 7 speed shifter options, you can use 8 speed shifters. Same spacing, you'll just want to adjust it so that one stop, preferably 8, is blocked.
    Actually 6 and 7 are spaced the same, but 8 speed cassettes have different spacing. you CAN use an 8 speed shifter with 7 speed cluster by using the alternate cable routing discussed here
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer....html#indexing

  24. #24
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    My mistake, I thought you were looking for a 7 speed solution. An 8 speed is much easier to find.

    But hey, don't change your kludgy story when called on it. If you think it is kludgy then stick with your story.

    I should have said an 8 can be compatible with a 7, it depends on what you are running. I think you meant to link to this page, not how to adjust a derailleur.

    These are nice 8 speed shifters.

    I agree, given a choice for a rider with shifting difficulties, rapidfire is the one most likely to work best for them.

  25. #25
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masiman View Post
    I think you meant to link to this page, not how to adjust a derailleur.

    These are nice 8 speed shifters.
    Actually I meant to link to the alternate cable routing bit on the page I linked to, because it tels how to make a 7 speed cluster work with an 8 speed shifter.

    Thanks for the link those do look good I will probably get them.

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