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Old 07-25-07, 05:58 PM   #1
DeLorean_4
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Chain in a Knot

Hi, I'm going to install electric components on my Niji Bike from the early 80s, so as a first step, I took it apart in order to clean it. However, during this process, the gear (on a Shimano RS system) recieving the chain from the pedals, was feeding it and the other gear, vice versa. So I flipped the chain, only to get these strange knots, I was hoping someone could tell me how to resolve this issue:




Close-up of the chain knots:
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Old 07-25-07, 06:29 PM   #2
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I'm not sure what you're attempting, but you're not going to turn a chain "inside out" without breaking it first. By "breaking" it I mean disconnecting a link.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:22 PM   #3
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Yes, please ellaborate on what you meant by "flipped the chain"
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Old 07-25-07, 08:27 PM   #4
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It is a simple puzzle, the chain is "endless" It just needs be be untangled.
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Old 07-25-07, 08:42 PM   #5
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It is a simple puzzle, the chain is "endless" It just needs be be untangled.

+1

Simple puzzle, but easier to work if you can remove the master link and or pin and remove the chain from the derailleurs.
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Old 07-25-07, 08:51 PM   #6
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Flipped the chain as in I rotated it 180 degrees, vertically. I can't untangle it somehow. And yes I know I'm being a real n00b here.
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Old 07-25-07, 08:52 PM   #7
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Flipped the chain as in I rotated it 180 degrees, vertically. I can't untangle it somehow. And yes I know I'm being a real n00b here.
it can be untangled. it just takes patience young padawan.
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Old 07-25-07, 09:03 PM   #8
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For every loop in the chain there has to be an equal and opposite loop. Even when you narrow it down to the last two loops it may seem impossible to invert them while the chain is threaded through the frame. I succeeded with a similar puzzle, but don't ask how it happened, I kept on fiddling knowing that if it could get into that position, then it can get out too.
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Old 07-25-07, 09:22 PM   #9
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It is a simple puzzle, the chain is "endless" It just needs be be untangled.
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it can be untangled. it just takes patience young padawan.
I once had a rubix cube and spent months trying to figure it out. The solution for me was to buy a brand new cube. In the same spirit, I would rather just break the chain
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Old 07-26-07, 05:45 AM   #10
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I once had a rubix cube and spent months trying to figure it out. The solution for me was to buy a brand new cube. In the same spirit, I would rather just break the chain
I am reminded of Alexanders solution to the Gordian Knot...
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Old 07-26-07, 09:11 AM   #11
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Alexanders solution to the Gordian Knot
Can you ring him up for me please? This isn't the kind of problem that can be solved with a hammer or propane torch to my misfortune.
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Old 07-26-07, 10:47 AM   #12
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the chain just flipped on itself a few times, follow the tangles through, and just flip the chain over. The chain is circular, so it can't be knotted, if it got there, you can reverse it.
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Old 07-26-07, 12:41 PM   #13
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I thought at first that you were trying to reverse the chain, that is, make the inside, the outside. ( for wear purposes ) I see now that wasn't your original intent, but that is probably where you have ended up.

I think that when you try to untangle it, you are trying to untangle it the wrong way. You are trying to make the inside the outside. That is impossible without braking the chain. If you can't untangle it one way, try the other. Does this make sense? You can rotate something like a rope along its length when it is looped, but not a chain. Simplest answer is get a chain breaker and a master link.
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Old 07-26-07, 12:48 PM   #14
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The Gordian Knot

;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...rdian_Knot.jpg

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Old 07-26-07, 03:33 PM   #15
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OMG you aren't going to believe this

Riding thru the neighborhood I spied a Hardrock Specialized in the TRASH. Both tires flat, back wheel removed, and the chain is looped just like this one!

I asked the people living there, they said it was being tossed out. On closer inspection it looks almost new. No rust, dust or wear. The brakes look new, the rims look good. WTF??? I can only guess they took the tire off to fix the flat, somehow got the chain tangled and just decided to chuck it.

I loaded the frame on my shoulders and carried the loose wheel on the handlebars home. This afternoon I futzed with the chain for a half hour with no luck.

I see a chain tool in my future.
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Old 07-26-07, 05:02 PM   #16
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I am reminded of Alexanders solution to the Gordian Knot...
And look how he ended up!

Don't break the chain; pour yourself a glass of whatever calms you best (Oban on the rocks, anyone?) and just take your time.

You can do it.
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Old 07-26-07, 05:28 PM   #17
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Chain tool & 30 seconds or two hours of frustration and an ulcer?

Can I get back to you on this?
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Old 07-26-07, 06:05 PM   #18
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Once you get it untangled you should give it a good lube with Sheldon's special system.
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Old 07-26-07, 06:10 PM   #19
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Chain tool & 30 seconds or two hours of frustration and an ulcer?

Can I get back to you on this?
Chain pins are an interference fit, which means they rely on friction to stay in place.

I've always felt one should not break a chain unnecessarily, that it compromises the integrity.

I could be wrong.

HOWEVER

I have untangled many bike chains, and if it will really take 2 hours and possibly cause an ulcer maybe bicycle mechanics is a bit beyond someone's reach...
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Old 07-26-07, 06:13 PM   #20
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I have untangled many bike chains, and if it will really take 2 hours and possibly cause an ulcer maybe bicycle mechanics is a bit beyond someone's reach...
If you're drinking Oban, you can afford a chain tool. Hell, you can just replace the chain.
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Old 07-26-07, 11:15 PM   #21
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Chain pins are an interference fit, which means they rely on friction to stay in place.

I've always felt one should not break a chain unnecessarily, that it compromises the integrity.
I agree somewhat, but the one advantage to those stupid break-off pins you have to use with Shimano is that you can tell where you broke the chain before, and never break the same place twice. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so if it's been broken once, it has a "compromised" location already. But yes, I wouldn't just break and reattach a chain willy nilly... but I also don't tangle my chains either.
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Old 07-27-07, 01:12 AM   #22
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I had a tangled chain today. I realized that the pesky loops always occur in pairs. So if you work on eliminating two at a time, it's no problem.
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Old 07-27-07, 03:23 AM   #23
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If you're drinking Oban, you can afford a chain tool. Hell, you can just replace the chain.
Zacly
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Old 07-27-07, 03:28 AM   #24
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Chain pins are an interference fit, which means they rely on friction to stay in place.

I've always felt one should not break a chain unnecessarily, that it compromises the integrity.

I could be wrong.

HOWEVER

I have untangled many bike chains, and if it will really take 2 hours and possibly cause an ulcer maybe bicycle mechanics is a bit beyond someone's reach...
Maybe, but I don't tangle chains. Just giving OP an alternative.
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Old 07-27-07, 05:23 AM   #25
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u will have to get a new one looking at them.
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