Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: Chain in a Knot

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Chain in a Knot

    Hi, I'm going to install electric components on my Niji Bike from the early 80s, so as a first step, I took it apart in order to clean it. However, during this process, the gear (on a Shimano RS system) recieving the chain from the pedals, was feeding it and the other gear, vice versa. So I flipped the chain, only to get these strange knots, I was hoping someone could tell me how to resolve this issue:




    Close-up of the chain knots:

  2. #2
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Corbyville Ontario
    My Bikes
    2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.
    Posts
    3,699
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm not sure what you're attempting, but you're not going to turn a chain "inside out" without breaking it first. By "breaking" it I mean disconnecting a link.

  3. #3
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
    Posts
    22,457
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, please ellaborate on what you meant by "flipped the chain"
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  4. #4
    The Red Lantern Rev.Chuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    5,967
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is a simple puzzle, the chain is "endless" It just needs be be untangled.
    Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
    Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.

    I am in the woods and I have gone crazy.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ryder47's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck View Post
    It is a simple puzzle, the chain is "endless" It just needs be be untangled.

    +1

    Simple puzzle, but easier to work if you can remove the master link and or pin and remove the chain from the derailleurs.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Flipped the chain as in I rotated it 180 degrees, vertically. I can't untangle it somehow. And yes I know I'm being a real n00b here.

  7. #7
    Senior Member FlatFender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    989
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean_4 View Post
    Flipped the chain as in I rotated it 180 degrees, vertically. I can't untangle it somehow. And yes I know I'm being a real n00b here.
    it can be untangled. it just takes patience young padawan.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Akadis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Hobart
    My Bikes
    Schwinn, National, Tassie Cycle, Avanti, Standish
    Posts
    126
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For every loop in the chain there has to be an equal and opposite loop. Even when you narrow it down to the last two loops it may seem impossible to invert them while the chain is threaded through the frame. I succeeded with a similar puzzle, but don't ask how it happened, I kept on fiddling knowing that if it could get into that position, then it can get out too.

  9. #9
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
    Posts
    22,457
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck View Post
    It is a simple puzzle, the chain is "endless" It just needs be be untangled.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlatFender View Post
    it can be untangled. it just takes patience young padawan.
    I once had a rubix cube and spent months trying to figure it out. The solution for me was to buy a brand new cube. In the same spirit, I would rather just break the chain
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  10. #10
    Hoz
    Hoz is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    I once had a rubix cube and spent months trying to figure it out. The solution for me was to buy a brand new cube. In the same spirit, I would rather just break the chain
    I am reminded of Alexanders solution to the Gordian Knot...

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Alexanders solution to the Gordian Knot
    Can you ring him up for me please? This isn't the kind of problem that can be solved with a hammer or propane torch to my misfortune.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    61
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the chain just flipped on itself a few times, follow the tangles through, and just flip the chain over. The chain is circular, so it can't be knotted, if it got there, you can reverse it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    239
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I thought at first that you were trying to reverse the chain, that is, make the inside, the outside. ( for wear purposes ) I see now that wasn't your original intent, but that is probably where you have ended up.

    I think that when you try to untangle it, you are trying to untangle it the wrong way. You are trying to make the inside the outside. That is impossible without braking the chain. If you can't untangle it one way, try the other. Does this make sense? You can rotate something like a rope along its length when it is looped, but not a chain. Simplest answer is get a chain breaker and a master link.
    “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #14
    Hoz
    Hoz is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  15. #15
    Hoz
    Hoz is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    OMG you aren't going to believe this

    Riding thru the neighborhood I spied a Hardrock Specialized in the TRASH. Both tires flat, back wheel removed, and the chain is looped just like this one!

    I asked the people living there, they said it was being tossed out. On closer inspection it looks almost new. No rust, dust or wear. The brakes look new, the rims look good. WTF??? I can only guess they took the tire off to fix the flat, somehow got the chain tangled and just decided to chuck it.

    I loaded the frame on my shoulders and carried the loose wheel on the handlebars home. This afternoon I futzed with the chain for a half hour with no luck.

    I see a chain tool in my future.

  16. #16
    Sometimes knows stuff. rmfnla's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    La La Land (We love it!)
    My Bikes
    Gilmour road, Curtlo road
    Posts
    2,538
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoz View Post
    I am reminded of Alexanders solution to the Gordian Knot...
    And look how he ended up!

    Don't break the chain; pour yourself a glass of whatever calms you best (Oban on the rocks, anyone?) and just take your time.

    You can do it.
    Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...

  17. #17
    Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP) Stacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,163
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Chain tool & 30 seconds or two hours of frustration and an ulcer?

    Can I get back to you on this?

  18. #18
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Corbyville Ontario
    My Bikes
    2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.
    Posts
    3,699
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Once you get it untangled you should give it a good lube with Sheldon's special system.

  19. #19
    Sometimes knows stuff. rmfnla's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    La La Land (We love it!)
    My Bikes
    Gilmour road, Curtlo road
    Posts
    2,538
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey View Post
    Chain tool & 30 seconds or two hours of frustration and an ulcer?

    Can I get back to you on this?
    Chain pins are an interference fit, which means they rely on friction to stay in place.

    I've always felt one should not break a chain unnecessarily, that it compromises the integrity.

    I could be wrong.

    HOWEVER

    I have untangled many bike chains, and if it will really take 2 hours and possibly cause an ulcer maybe bicycle mechanics is a bit beyond someone's reach...
    Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...

  20. #20
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Corbyville Ontario
    My Bikes
    2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.
    Posts
    3,699
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rmfnla View Post

    I have untangled many bike chains, and if it will really take 2 hours and possibly cause an ulcer maybe bicycle mechanics is a bit beyond someone's reach...
    If you're drinking Oban, you can afford a chain tool. Hell, you can just replace the chain.

  21. #21
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
    Posts
    22,457
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rmfnla View Post
    Chain pins are an interference fit, which means they rely on friction to stay in place.

    I've always felt one should not break a chain unnecessarily, that it compromises the integrity.
    I agree somewhat, but the one advantage to those stupid break-off pins you have to use with Shimano is that you can tell where you broke the chain before, and never break the same place twice. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so if it's been broken once, it has a "compromised" location already. But yes, I wouldn't just break and reattach a chain willy nilly... but I also don't tangle my chains either.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  22. #22
    Senior Member MrCjolsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Davis CA
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
    Posts
    3,954
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had a tangled chain today. I realized that the pesky loops always occur in pairs. So if you work on eliminating two at a time, it's no problem.

  23. #23
    Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP) Stacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,163
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I_bRAD View Post
    If you're drinking Oban, you can afford a chain tool. Hell, you can just replace the chain.
    Zacly

  24. #24
    Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP) Stacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,163
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rmfnla View Post
    Chain pins are an interference fit, which means they rely on friction to stay in place.

    I've always felt one should not break a chain unnecessarily, that it compromises the integrity.

    I could be wrong.

    HOWEVER

    I have untangled many bike chains, and if it will really take 2 hours and possibly cause an ulcer maybe bicycle mechanics is a bit beyond someone's reach...
    Maybe, but I don't tangle chains. Just giving OP an alternative.

  25. #25
    fully player n.o.r.t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    u will have to get a new one looking at them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •