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Old 07-25-07, 07:08 PM   #1
hypercube33
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Looking for a Wheel Truing Stand

I'd rather build my own, but...
As I must have to buy one, I want a quallity stand that'll last forever. If anyone has a used, I'm all for it. I'd prefer to mention that I may use it for a future bikeshop and I'm on a budget

Can I be any cheaper?

Thanks!
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Old 07-25-07, 07:18 PM   #2
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Cheap one; Spin Doctor from Performance.
Pro level; Park

Depends on how much you want to spend. Both will true a wheel fine.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:20 PM   #3
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I have had my Park TS-2 for 13 years now, and it was a hand-me-down. I have no idea how long the other guy had it for (he had been racing since the 60's), but the thing is solid as a rock and builds nice, true, dished wheels every time.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:32 PM   #4
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I just got my Minoura Workman Jr. for $35 from aebike.com
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Old 07-25-07, 07:44 PM   #5
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The cheapest you can get is to just use the brake pads while the wheel is on the bike hanging from the repair stand. This works fine for me, but I suppose if you're going to be truing a lot of wheels you might want to just spend the money on a good one.
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Old 07-26-07, 07:09 AM   #6
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I've made several truing stands, including one sided ones, horizontal ones and a couple made form old forks, and the only thing I ever had to buy was a dial indicator. Any stand with a dial, no matter how crude, is more accurate than any stand without one. My stand takes a long time to set up, but it is easy to use and more than accurate enough.
I don't like to use the brake pads on the bike as the indicator. It's too hard for me to see the distance between the rim and the flat surface of the brake pad. Putting a zip tie on the stay, and positioning the free end close to the rim is better.

em
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Old 07-26-07, 07:31 AM   #7
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What is so magical about a dial indicator?
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Old 07-26-07, 07:45 AM   #8
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What is so magical about a dial indicator?
There no magic, it's just measurement. I can easily see one-thousands of an inch with a dial. Without a dial, I can barely see 1 mm (40/1000) difference. That makes a dial 40 times more accurate. Plus, I can record the dial measurements, and I can re-measure the wheel later to determine how stable it is.
I'm sure there are professional wheelbuilders who will say that they don't need to measure that way, and that the set up time is too much for them, and that their wheels always come out perfectly. But I've only built a few wheels, and all that measurement has given me a good feeling that my wheels are as good as any I could buy.
I could turn the question around. What's so magic about an expensive wheelstand that makes it necessary for an amateur builder, as some people seem to suggest?

em
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Old 07-26-07, 07:47 AM   #9
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What is so magical about a dial indicator?
It embodies a technology beyond your understanding?




"A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd Law of Prediction

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Old 07-26-07, 07:59 AM   #10
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I expect this one to outlive us all:




Best part: It was free, given to me by a friend that had it in storage since the 60's
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Old 07-26-07, 08:09 AM   #11
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There no magic, it's just measurement. I can easily see one-thousands of an inch with a dial. Without a dial, I can barely see 1 mm (40/1000) difference. That makes a dial 40 times more accurate. Plus, I can record the dial measurements, and I can re-measure the wheel later to determine how stable it is.
I'm sure there are professional wheelbuilders who will say that they don't need to measure that way, and that the set up time is too much for them, and that their wheels always come out perfectly. But I've only built a few wheels, and all that measurement has given me a good feeling that my wheels are as good as any I could buy.
I could turn the question around. What's so magic about an expensive wheelstand that makes it necessary for an amateur builder, as some people seem to suggest?

em
You don't have to see the difference, you can hear it when the rim scrapes the caliper.

The magic of a good wheelstand is ease and simplicity of use, if you plan to true wheels often and/or build wheels then it is an excellent investment. The Park TS-2 can even eliminate the need for a dishing gauge if it is set up properly, further time savings and simplification of the process. Even your homemade stand with a dial indicator would require removal of the wheel several times in the truing process to check dish.
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Old 07-26-07, 08:38 AM   #12
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You don't have to see the difference, you can hear it when the rim scrapes the caliper.

The magic of a good wheelstand is ease and simplicity of use, if you plan to true wheels often and/or build wheels then it is an excellent investment. The Park TS-2 can even eliminate the need for a dishing gauge if it is set up properly, further time savings and simplification of the process. Even your homemade stand with a dial indicator would require removal of the wheel several times in the truing process to check dish.
The keywords are "if you plan to true wheels often..." Otherwise, a $100+ stand to build 5 or 6 wheels in my whole life? Not much of an "investment."
Another way to look at is that there is really no reason too build wheels except that I enjoy doing it, and there's no reason to buy a wheel stand if I enjoy building my own. If I were looking at this an investment, I'd buy a set of Campagnolo wheels and spent the time I save on my business.

em
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Old 07-26-07, 08:48 AM   #13
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There no magic, it's just measurement. I can easily see one-thousands of an inch with a dial. Without a dial, I can barely see 1 mm (40/1000) difference. That makes a dial 40 times more accurate.
Geez, what brand of rims are you using?! Most of my wheels are inconsistent in width by about .5mm anyway, at least at the seam they are.

But yeah, it's not an investment to buy a nice stand, but it makes building the wheels that much smoother. For that matter, why buy a bike for more than $500 if you're not a pro racer? Hardly an investment either.
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Old 07-26-07, 09:16 AM   #14
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Geez, what brand of rims are you using?! Most of my wheels are inconsistent in width by about .5mm anyway, at least at the seam they are.

But yeah, it's not an investment to buy a nice stand, but it makes building the wheels that much smoother. For that matter, why buy a bike for more than $500 if you're not a pro racer? Hardly an investment either.
I try to get down to .5 mm, because from what i can tell, that's about the spec for a high end wheel. I like knowing that I can build a wheel as true as anyone, but even ,5 mm is probably over doing it. It would probably be better to concentrate on proper tension once you get below 1 mm or so. My next wheelbuilding ptoject will be to make my own tension gauge, something like a DT gauge. I think the hard part is going to be calibrating it.
Pro tools are nice to use, but sometimes the biggest benefit is the time they save. I like making my own tools more than I like building wheels.
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Old 07-26-07, 10:15 AM   #15
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Why build your own wheels? To save money? For the enjoyment? Necessity? I don't see how footing the bill for a decent truing stand doesn't enhance any of those reasons, unless you want to also feel the sense of accomplishment achieved from creating your own tool for the job. To create a tool that is as capable as the TS-2 or the like, in a home brewed fashion , is cost prohibitive unless you have your own machine shop.
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Old 07-26-07, 10:38 AM   #16
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Why build your own wheels? To save money? For the enjoyment? Necessity? I don't see how footing the bill for a decent truing stand doesn't enhance any of those reasons, unless you want to also feel the sense of accomplishment achieved from creating your own tool for the job. To create a tool that is as capable as the TS-2 or the like, in a home brewed fashion , is cost prohibitive unless you have your own machine shop.
I've made 3 different stands, at a total cost of about $30 (including $20 for 2 dials), and all of them are at least as easy to use and more accurate as a TS-2. The only downside is that they take a little time to set up. To make a TS-2 as accurate as mine, I'd need to add a dial, and the set up time for that would be about the same as what I do now. And at my skill level, I think I need the dial. Obviously, if I had to get 20 or 30 wheelsets out the door every week, I might have a different opinion about what tools I need.
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Old 07-26-07, 11:12 AM   #17
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I try to get down to .5 mm, because from what i can tell, that's about the spec for a high end wheel. I like knowing that I can build a wheel as true as anyone, but even ,5 mm is probably over doing it. It would probably be better to concentrate on proper tension once you get below 1 mm or so. My next wheelbuilding ptoject will be to make my own tension gauge, something like a DT gauge. I think the hard part is going to be calibrating it.
Pro tools are nice to use, but sometimes the biggest benefit is the time they save. I like making my own tools more than I like building wheels.
I can relate. Before machined sidewalls became so common, my goal with every wheel was to true it until it made a ping every time the seam hit the prongs. As you said, not necessary, but gave me a sense of pride.
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Old 07-26-07, 12:13 PM   #18
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The cheapest you can get is to just use the brake pads while the wheel is on the bike hanging from the repair stand. This works fine for me, but I suppose if you're going to be truing a lot of wheels you might want to just spend the money on a good one.
The only purpose an upside down fork with brake pads is to true it on the road when you've crashed.
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Old 07-26-07, 12:16 PM   #19
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I've made 3 different stands, at a total cost of about $30 (including $20 for 2 dials), and all of them are at least as easy to use and more accurate as a TS-2. The only downside is that they take a little time to set up. To make a TS-2 as accurate as mine, I'd need to add a dial, and the set up time for that would be about the same as what I do now. And at my skill level, I think I need the dial. Obviously, if I had to get 20 or 30 wheelsets out the door every week, I might have a different opinion about what tools I need.
People need to learn words like "opportunity cost" etc.
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Old 07-26-07, 12:18 PM   #20
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The only purpose an upside down fork with brake pads is to true it on the road when you've crashed.
ONLY purpose?
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Old 07-26-07, 12:53 PM   #21
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I've made 3 different stands, at a total cost of about $30 (including $20 for 2 dials), and all of them are at least as easy to use and more accurate as a TS-2. The only downside is that they take a little time to set up. To make a TS-2 as accurate as mine, I'd need to add a dial, and the set up time for that would be about the same as what I do now. And at my skill level, I think I need the dial. Obviously, if I had to get 20 or 30 wheelsets out the door every week, I might have a different opinion about what tools I need.
I don't believe that a dial indicator is necessary or more accurate. Just because you can quantify your adjustments using a number with three decimals does not make it more accurate. Unless your home made stands are self-centering, I fail to see how they can be as easy at the TS-2. Without the self centering you must remove the wheel periodically to check dish. Maybe as easy as other stands that aren't self-centering.

Look, I admire anyone with the gumption to build home-made jigs to true their own wheels but if you have the money, a well made stand is worth buying. Don't forget to put some value on the time it takes to engineer and build your home-made jig either, there's more to the cost of a project than the materials involved. (I think that is Operator's point) Don't give me any nonsense about how it took you 10 minutes to whip it up, I won't buy it.
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Old 07-26-07, 02:08 PM   #22
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So is that $35 stand from aebike.com a good starter? A friend and I are going to rebuild bikes and need a place to start.
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Old 07-26-07, 02:55 PM   #23
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This one is better, it is self centering and much easier to use. I know its 3x the cost but you'll thank yourself.
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Old 07-27-07, 07:12 AM   #24
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I don't believe that a dial indicator is necessary or more accurate. Just because you can quantify your adjustments using a number with three decimals does not make it more accurate. Unless your home made stands are self-centering, I fail to see how they can be as easy at the TS-2. Without the self centering you must remove the wheel periodically to check dish. Maybe as easy as other stands that aren't self-centering.

Look, I admire anyone with the gumption to build home-made jigs to true their own wheels but if you have the money, a well made stand is worth buying. Don't forget to put some value on the time it takes to engineer and build your home-made jig either, there's more to the cost of a project than the materials involved. (I think that is Operator's point) Don't give me any nonsense about how it took you 10 minutes to whip it up, I won't buy it.
A dial is definitely more accurate than a simple pointer, but whether that added accuracy is necessary is a good question. For me, at my level of skill when I started, I definitely needed to assure myself that my wheels were straight, and more important that they were stable. You need measurement for that. Whether it's worth buying another $200 of tools depends on what you think is important. I like using nice tools, but I like building and using my own tools as well.

em

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Old 07-27-07, 07:17 AM   #25
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People need to learn words like "opportunity cost" etc.
I know all about opportunity cost. What you need to remember is that it is market determined, and the market varies over time. The opportunity cost of my time varies between zero and a whole lot. Fortunately, I have enough hours when is a whole lot, but even more hours when it is zero. If that were not true, I wouldn't bother to build my own wheels, and I definitely wouldn't be posting here.

em
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