GoJacob

Hello everyone,
I have a thread up in the Classic/Vintage forum about my recent ebay purchase... a 1973/1974 Nishiki International (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/333055-nishiki-international-questions.html)

I figured I would bring my technical questions here and pick your minds...

To preface these questions, I must say that I want a bike to commute to class (possibly carrying multiple heavy textbooks) and something for longer rides (short tours). I must also say that I haven't received the bike yet and I'd like to have everything planned out and possibly ordered before I get the bike.

1)I want replace the handlebars either with trekking, bullhorns, moustache, or non-randonneur drop bars.
Will the existing barcons fit onto any/all of these? Any recommendations (personal preferences) for this kind of bike?

2)I don't think the bike comes with a chain... so I'm thinking I have to replace the freewheel too. The existing freewheel on the bike is a Shimano 6 speed and the bike originally had a Suntour 5 speed from the factory. I have noticed there is both "ultra" (narrow spacing) 6 speed and a normal spaced 6 speed. Which should I replace it with? Or should I just get a NOS 5 speed freewheel? Is there any way that a new chain will be fine on the freewheel? Should I wait to get the new chain to see if I need a new freewheel? Can you tell if the cogs are worn too much just by looking at them (the 6 speed isn't the original and may be relatively new, so that's why I was thinking this).

Sorry for the lengthy questions
Thanks for reading and thanks for any help you can lend!

Chrysiptera

Wow; that bike is in very good shape.. Nice..

My thoughts are that you will want to upgrade your brake levers while you are changing your handlebars. Those older style "non-aero" levers have crappy leverage and upgrading to the newer style will greatly improve your braking force; even with the same calipers. If you stay with drop bars the Tektro R200A Ergo Brake Levers are the cheapest that I know of, and I can say they are decent(I have them on one of my bikes). They'll run you $20 for a set. If you go to a diff style of bar you'll obviously need new levers of the appropriate type.

In so far as the bars themselves; I like regular drop bars, but bullhorns can be nice too. I think drop bars are more versatile though.

Your freewheel should only be replaced if the teeth are significantly worn. So if the chain was replaced before it stretched too much you don't need to replace your freewheel too. Sheldon Brown has a very interesting page regarding this.

In so far as seeing if it is worn by eye:

"The illustration [below] shows two formerly identical sprockets, viewed from the right side. The one closest to us is badly worn. On a new sprocket tooth, the surface that the roller presses against is perpendicular to the pull of the chain. The worn teeth have become ramps, causing the chain to ride up under load." Sheldon Brown

DMF 

As far as what freewheel, they are all interchangeable. So long as you are friction shifting just choose one that fits in the dropouts. First see how the current setup works - both in fitting the frame and in satisfying your gearing needs - before deciding.

HillRider

The Ultra-6 freewheels were developed by Sun Tour as a way to get six cogs into the width of a 5-speed freewheel and fit into the old 120 mm rear dropout spacing. A standard width 6-speed freewheel uses 126 mm dropout spacing. The old Sun Tour Ultra-6 freewheels had a reputation for poor shifting and my previous experience with them supports that.

That said, I don't think Shimano ever made Ultra-6 freewheels, only standard spaced ones, so if the bike has a Shimano 6-speed freewheel either it was originally spaced 126 mm (unlikely for it's time) or has been respaced (cold set) to 126. BTW, a 7-speed freewheel will fit in the same 126 mm spacing.

GoJacob

I was looking at the 221A ones. They're a touch cheaper ($18 shipped). Are there any difference between these two models? Thanks for the recommendation; I'm glad too see tektro makes solid components.
I thinking I'm debating between drop bars or trekking bars. I never use the drops and I'm almost always on the hoods; so I'm thinking maybe trekking bars will give me more hand positions? But I AM used to drop bar hoods and they seem to be pretty comfortable (and a touch cheaper!). Thanks for the comments on the freewheel wear.

Thanks for all of this, it really has cleared some things up for me
It looks like I'm going to have to wait until I get the bike to determine if it will need a new freewheel. The ebay seller still hasn't replied to my question on whether it comes with a chain or not, but according to the pictures it doesn't look like it. I think what I'll do is order a new chain and try it out when I get the bike. If there's any slippage, I'll replace the freewheel.

looking at this picture, the cogs (at least the largest) don't seem to have become too sloped or jagged yet

Is it safe to use a new chain on a used freewheel (if nothing slips or skips)? Will it cause faster wear on the new chain? If I can stick with the old freewheel that would be great because I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible.

HillRider

Yes but that's a BIG IF. A worn freewheel/cassette will usually skip with a new chain, particularly in the smaller cogs that are used more and have fewer teeth to share the load.

Try it but be ready to replace the freewheel quickly if you have skipping problems. You don't want to damage the new chain by beating on it too hard.

GoJacob

awesome, thanks for quick response
wouldn't happen to know if those barcons will attach to these or any of these (any of the $15 drops) <---- as for the drops, which would be best for riding on the hoods?

Do the shifting cables just route underneath the bar tape?

EB3551

Nice shape for an older bike.

If you're going to change the freewheel, check out Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, which will help you choose the cogs you want by showing Gear Inches (or alternately Gain Ratios) and percentage of the gaps between gears. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

As a bonus, when you run the calculator, you get a printable mini-chart of the Gear Inches or Gain Ratios that you can tape on the handlebar or stem.

EB

HillRider

Barcons will probably fit any of the drop bars. Have no idea about the "trekking bars" but Nashbar has a tech service link on their web site pages so you could ask them.

Cables for barcons are most commonly routed along the bottom of the drops under the bar tape for a few inches then emerge and loop around to the down tube cable stops rather like Shimano STI cables. Some riders run the housings under the bar tape all the way to the stem where they come out like Campy Ergo cables.

GoJacob

awesome awesome
i'd be fairly lost without you people
thanks so much for all the help!

Charles Wahl

Given the picture of the rear end showing some teeth from the largest sprocket on the far side, and the excellent condition of the frame, I'll wager that the freewheel is not worn, and that you can use it 6-speed as-is, with a new chain. I would remove the freewheel (not really easy, but the LBS can do it if you don't want to buy the tool), soak it in kerosene, and relube it with oil. You can put it back on the hub with no tools at all. For an old bike, I'd recommend a complete cleaning/relube of all bearings before you ride: headset, crank, hubs, pedals. Start out on the right foot.

Chains are cheap, and there's no point in trying to save a few bucks by staying out of the LBS -- if it's a competent place, they'll know what you need; probably an SRAM PC-58 (5, 6, 7, 8-speed compatible) will do just fine. Get a decent chain link tool, even though these come with a master (quick disconnect) link.

BTW, I'll bet your bike originally had downtube shifters (the heart-shaped braze-on on the downtube) which someone replaced with bar-end shifters. That's why the cable stop that's there doesn't "fit" the heart.

HillRider

I exect the downtube shifters were clamp-ons also as there are no braze-on shifter bosses. The original dt shifter clamp "fit" the heart shaped stop about like the current cable stop bracket does.

GoJacob

wow, you guys are amazing.
this is all absolutely fascinating and very much helpful.
I plan on just buying a cartridge shimano bb... the same I use in my miyata... it works and installs flawlessly.
I am totally unfamiliar with headsets, so I will be coming back here to get some assistance. Hubs are not a familiar part either, and I don't want to ruin anything.
Is taking apart the headset and hubs/bearings hard/dangerous?

I'm assuming that because of the original dt shifters, that this bike wasn't all too crappy in its day. I recall that the models that came with dt shifters were meant for more serious riding -- compared to stem shifters. But, of course, I might be wrong.

Also, I work at Dick's Sporting Goods... and I could probably just take my bike in there and use their tools-- they have a full arsenal of park tools, which surprises me. The only problem with this is that I won't have anyone there to help me or tell me what I need/need to do.

I got the tracking number for it. It will arrive Tuesday. The total package with packing weighs 30 lbs... not too bad?
Thanks for the help everyone!

P.S. what is that cable hanging down by the front wheel... it looks like it's hooked to a cyclocomputer or something... strange.

HDavidH

In looking closely at your crank, it appears to be a "half-step" with the 1st (smallest) ring missing. That 2nd ring is almost as big as the 3rd ring. I have a Sugino half-step 3 ring crank that is 52, 48, 28 on a Holdsworth set up for hilly touring (32 tooth 1st cog on cassette) but for the life of me I don't see how another ring would bolt onto your crank. My sugino has another set of bolts just for the 1st (28T) ring and the 52 and 48 bolt together to the crank as your pic depicts this maxy to be.
Unusual. Beautiful bike. I have a Nishiki cyclo-cross frame that is basic stove-pipe heavy but wonderful for all that.

Bill Kapaun

Did they make triples with a 3 arm crank?

GoJacob

I've never heard of half-step gearing... so I looked it up. I really don't understand it very well

How is it any different than regular gearing? from what I got from reading about it... it's to give you a better ability to fine tune that "perfect" gearing for your situation, but I don't really get it. Will this bike shift any different?

Does that mean the bike originally had a triple crank? Please excuse my blatent ignorance

The more I look at the thing hanging from the handlebars, the more it starts to look like a cyclocomputer magnet thingy. But the device that it's hanging from looks very odd if it's a computer...

I appreciate everyone's time and attention to my bike. It is helping me learn and prepare.
Thanks for everything!

John E

Yes, early 1970s Nishikis typically were half-step: 54-47 / 14-18-22-27-34 (mine 1971 Semi-Pro) or 54-48 / 14-18-22-28-34 (most Kokusais and later Semi-Pros/Competitions I have seen).

The concept is relatively simple -- start with a cogset with a reasonably smooth ratiometric progression, such as 14-16-18-21-24 or 14-17-20-24-28. Compute the average gear ratio change between consecutive cogs and select two (outer) chainrings with half as large a percentage difference. You end up with a zig-zag gear pattern with the odd-numbered gears on the small chainring and the even-numbered ratios on the large. Add a small inner ring if you want a half-step-plus-granny setup for hills or mountain biking.

My commuter has half-step gearing: 45-42 / 13-15-17-20-23-26, as does Capo #2 (49-46 / 14-16-18-21-24-26). The 11-speed gear progression goes like this:

46/26, (49/26 -- crosschain; don't use), 46/24, 49/24, 46/21, 49/21, 46/18, 49/18, 46/16, 49/16, 46/14, 49/14. In practice, one normally shifts the rear derailleur, using the front for fine-tuning to reach the ratios in between.

John E

Yes; they were quite popular in the 1960s, typically 52-45-36 or 52-47-36, although I found a 53-49-45 at Al Frank's Second-Hand Store in Orange County CA.

GoJacob

I can't wait to get the bike to actually SEE and FEEL all of this. I'll post some more pictures as well -- once I fix it up.

This is some fascinating stuff. Thank you for explaining it to me -- it actually makes sense... I was thinking it was a different KIND of shifting... but it just has to do with the ratios.. not the shifting mechanism itself. There's just so much I don't know and I love learning all of this kind of stuff. Thank you so very much.

This has turned out to be a really great thread with a lot of juicy information for me. I encourage it all. thanks