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Old 09-12-01, 01:26 PM   #1
RainmanP
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Campy drivetrain with Shimano cassette?

OK, you wrenches, help me out here. I have been under the impression that Campy and Shimano components were incompatible. That is Campy chainwheels with Shimano cassette. Forget shifters, derailleurs, and cog spacing for a minute. It was my understanding that the tooth configurations were different. However, on its website, Chicagoland,
http://www.assosusa.com/wheels.htm
says the following:

Shimano Wheels
Shimano wheels are compatible with Shimano 8 and 9 speed cassettes. If you attempt to install a Campagnolo cassette, it will not work. They are incompatible. If you have a Campagnolo 9 speed drivetrain, you need to use a Dura Ace/Ultegra/105 cassette with a Shimano chain. These wheels are not compatible with Campagnolo 10 speed.

Another website, Wheels Manufacturing, also describes Dura Ace and Ultegra cassettes that have been reconfigured (presumably just re-spaced) to work on Shimano hubs with Campy shifters/ders.

Does this mean that you CAN use a Shimano cassette and chain (and, presumably, SRAM) with a Campy crank?

This interests me because I toy with changing my old Bianchi over to Campy. It has downtube shifters with friction option. If I can use a Shimano cassette, it would not cost too much (relatively speaking) to switch the crank, bb, and rear der. I could ride it with the downtube shifters for a while and save up the nickels to replace the shifters, etc.. piecemeal.

I won't be racing this bike or anything. I'm just thinking that if I am going to upgrade, I would like to do it with Campy if I can do it a bit at a time. Eventually, I would probably return this bike to original configuration and put the Campy components on another bike.
Confused as usual,
Raymond
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Old 09-12-01, 01:52 PM   #2
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The problem with rings is that Campy uses a different bolt diameter than Shimano. There are companies which make freehub ratchets for hubs which will allow you to use campy/shimano on other hubs. I'm not sure how well these things work.
Chains are pretty much the same, so no, it doesn't really matter which brand you use, except for Campy 10 speed. I don't believe any outside manufacturers make those yet.
If the bike is old enough to use a freewheel, those are universal. Friction shifters are also universal (although you may run out of travel should you try to do something extreme like going from 5-speed cogs to 9-speed cogs). There is also the problem of different dropout spacings, making upgrades a little bit more complicated (and expensive).
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Old 09-12-01, 03:43 PM   #3
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Will not get technical as many do.

I actually mixed parts. Always have always will. No problems.

I run a full Record 9s bike with Dura Ace cassette and non Shimano or non Campy chain. No problems.

Chainrings you cannot buy the 130mm Shimano uses as Campy uses different bolt pattern but as long as you have the right fit they will all work.

Most shops just to preotect themselves from lawsuits and problematic customers will not reccomend or promote mixing of parts. This so they are not liable when you have a minor problem and want to sue them for millions.

I say you can mix, but do not sue me.
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Old 09-12-01, 04:22 PM   #4
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Ray,

Using different parts at the front vs. the back is usually not a problem, especially if you leave the front derailer to be shifted by a friction lever. I'm still using the original Specialized crankset and front derailer on my road bike, along with the new Shimano 8/9 speed stuff in the back--works beautifully. It's at the back end where mixing components can be a problem.

Shimano and Campy use different spacing between the cogs on a cassette, so it can sometimes be difficult to use a Shimano cassette with a Campy rear derailer and shifters, and vice versa.

There are two exceptions, one of which may be of particular interest to you:

1. Campy 8-speed shifters and derailers use the exact same spacing as Shimano 7-speed stuff. You could use a 7-speed Shimano freehub and cassette along with a Campy 8-speed derailer and shifters with no problem whatsoever. Just adjust the derailer to limit its travel to the 7 cogs on the cassette.

2. Campy and Shimano 9-speed gear, while not exactly the same spacing, are close enough to each other that you can usually get away with the same mix of equipment as above: Shimano hub, cassette & chain along with Campy derailers & shifters.

As long as you use friction shifting for the front derailer, there should not be a problem with whatever you end up using in back.
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Old 09-13-01, 07:23 AM   #5
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Thanks, guys! Since I have you started, let me take it a step further.

My intended upgrad path is as follows.

STAGE 1:
Racing T Crankset
BB
Daytona Rear der
SRAM 9-speed chain
Might I notice any difference using these components with a 9-speed Shimano cassette?

STAGE 2
Daytona Ergo shifters
Front der
Any difference now?

STAGE 3
Campy hub and cassette

My point being, will I notice any difference - smoothness, shifting crispness - from a switch to Campy or is this more a long term benefit from durability and rebuild capability?

Thanks,
Raymond
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Old 09-13-01, 08:16 AM   #6
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Assuming you will be using Campy Ergolevers, the front chainset remains fully compatable, even with a Shimano mech and chainset, or a mix of Campy and Shimano mechs/chainsets.

At the rear, you need to match the lever cable pull, the rear mech horizontal movement, and the inter-cog spacing.

Its best to stick to manufacturers for lever/mech combinations.
You can fit cogs of any spacing onto a Shimano rear hub. Replace the Shimano cogs with a set from Marchision, and ask for spacers compatable with Campy 8 or 9 speed, depending on your mech/changer combo.

Make sure you are using a chain which is compatable (ie 8 pr 9 speed, Sachs chain), and ensure the front chainwheels are of the correct thickness for the chain. There is nothing wrong with Shimano chainsets, and the smaller BCD permits smaller rings, but the chainwheels wear out. It may be more cost-effective to change the rings to TA, rather than swap the whole chainset.

There are 4 levels of upgrade you can make.
Ist step on the upgrade would be Ergolevers, Campy rear mech, and Marchision sprockets.
2nd step. TA chainwhels.
3rd step. Campy front mech
4th step Campy chainset AND bottom bracket.
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Old 09-13-01, 08:17 AM   #7
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typo. It is Marchisio, available from Torelli.com + some other places.
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Old 09-13-01, 08:44 AM   #8
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Stage 1: Possibly. Your ergo/whatever shifters may not have the travel needed for a campy rear derailleur. Then again, it may actually work fine on indexing. Check to be sure the chainline doesn't change when the new crankset goes in.
Stage 2: Probably not, other than the fact that campy levers work so well.
Stage 3: should only get better at this point.
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Old 09-13-01, 09:43 AM   #9
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Thanks, Michael! That does sound like a better path with more immediate potential.
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Old 09-15-01, 11:16 AM   #10
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Well, I'm going for it. I ordered Daytona Ergopower shifters and a Daytona rear der from our friend Xavier at Bulltek. I called Harris Cyclery to see about spacers to change the spacing of a Shimano 9-speed cassette from Shimano to Campy. They assured me that the Campy der will work just fine with Shimano cassettes as they are. The guy went to ask Sheldon himself. I've already got a 9-speed chain so I guess I'm in business. Of course, since I'm pulling everything off, now would also be a good time for a new bar; the spacing and curvature of the original is cramped for my big paws. This kind of thing just goes on and on, doesn't it? As long as I'm (fill in the blank), I might as well (fill in the blank). Sigh. I was thinking about a new stem, too. Help! Somebody stop me!
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Old 09-15-01, 05:52 PM   #11
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Make sure that your bar diameter matches the stem. There are 2 different diameters. If you need bars, check out mud,sweat and gears on OK city. Make sure you get one the right width and drop for you.
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Old 09-16-01, 11:59 AM   #12
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Ergolevers can add about 1cm in length to the riding position on the hoods. Before you send off for a new bar/stem, asses the size of the new levers.
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Old 09-16-01, 01:12 PM   #13
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Thanks for the heads ups, guys!
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