GoJacob

Hello everyone, wasn't sure where to put this so I fihured everyone here could help me...

I just got my Nishiki all tuned up and running well. I just have a little problem. I feel like I'm a little too stretched out -- like I have too far of a reach to the top of the hoods. My arms are like 3-4 degress from being straight, and it's more comfortable to straighten them out when I ride the hoods.... and I know it's not suppose to be like that. I have already moved the saddle as far forward as it will go, which makes it better, but I still feel like I'm reaching too far.
Is it practical to replace the stem with something shorter? I think it has the average size stem on it (it's all about 30 years old)
or is there any better remedy that I'm overlooking? I'm used to a smaller bike (albeit a bit too cramped for longer rides) so maybe I just need to get used to it? I'm not sure yet.

Another thing, the frame is bigger... I rode around the block and my legs were sore! is this normal with a bigger frame? it fits me wonderfully vertically... it's just the horizontal aspect that I'm worried about.

thanks!

P.S. I should have some pictures up of it soon...!

Mr Pantani

Making a too-large bike fit you is often tedious and in the end, not very rewarding. You could go for a shorter stem to alleviate the fit problem - I'd get one maybe 3, 4, maybe even 5 cm shorter judging by your description. Those are dramatic differences, but I feel like this bike is a fair amount too big for you.

I would also move the saddle back a bit, maybe at least halfway towards its original position. Shunting it all the way forward is a bad idea for your stroke; it changes your position relative to the pedals (making things less efficient) and also redistributes weight un-ideally. This may also be a source of your leg soreness. So for me, even if I have to get a super-short stem to make a bike fit, I leave the saddle where it is.

The 'horizontal aspect', as you called it, is far more important. 'Vertical' fit can be accomplished just by moving the seatpost up and down in almost all cases, so it really isn't anything to worry about. In the end, I would strongly advise you flip the bike on Craigslist or something, and go with a frame size that really fits you. For a good fit, I like this test in which you look down (while riding) at the front hub (the thing the spokes come out of). If the handlebars are forward of the hub in your line of sight, it's sign that the bike's too big. If the handlebars are on top of the hub or a little bit back, you generally get a pretty good fit.

Hope this helps you. Feel free to ask questions. Btw, this would probably belong in the Road forums for future reference, but it's okay.

GoJacob

I appreciate your response
i just took it out for a ride after reading your fit test...

when I'm in the drops, the handlebars are in front of the hub
and when I'm on the hoods, the handlebar is lined up (sometimes the hub sticks in front depending how I arch my back)
and when I'm on the top horizontal bars, the handlebar is slightly behind the hub (they are randonneur style therefore raised slightly)
It seems like the more vertical I am, the farther the hub moves forward in my line of sight.

I'm not sure how you'd classify this.

I mainly ride on the hoods, but the drops are comfortable as well.
I feel like if I had the hoods about 1-2 centimeters closer, it could be a bit more flexible. but who knows...

I really love the way it feels, very smooth riding,
I just don't know if feeling more stretched out is going to work long term.
I do remember reading somewhere that being stretched out is a characteristic of touring bikes.

Mr Pantani

I might stress that the line-of-sight hub test is more of a informal rule of thumb than actual scientific test. Still, that's interesting, yeah, I got the impression that your bars were set higher up by the way you described it.

Back to my point about the saddle - if you find you only get an acceptable fit when you slide your saddle all the way forward, you really ought to consider again 1) a much shorter stem or 2) a new frame/bike in the interest of retaining a proper position relative to the bottom bracket / pedals. A very important measurement in bike fit is the seat tube angle - by moving the saddle forward, you'll change this measurement and consequently your stroke.

I'd try out a new stem, they're cheap. Stem swaps have not failed me in the past in terms of making bikes work. Still, I've come to the point more than once in which I've had to tell myself to let it go and sell the bike. Good luck.

Camilo

What size is the stem? Measure from the center of the handlebars to the center of the bolt that holds the stem.

You can indeed get smaller stems, but it would be nice to know what size you have to decide if it is reasonable to go shorter. "Normal" stems don't get much shorter than 80 mm, but are available to 50 mm . Obviously if you're at 100 - 120 mm now, you can lose quite a bit of length.

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/stems/index.html

It's generally recommended you adjust your seat position according to pedaling position, not to deal with reach. If you're not familiar, use the "knee over pedal" measurement as a starting point and adjust a little front or rear from there depending on your preference.

Then, decide which stem length to try. MOst local bike shops will let you try various stem sizes to decide.

GoJacob

i must say that i have a bias of wanting to keep the bike after all the money (and labor!) i put into it...

but, i took it out for a longer ride (farther than just around the block)... and it's really not that bad, but I'm curious as to what a shorter stem would feel like.
the problem is that I don't know if it's uncomfortable or just different than what I'm used to.
it feels more efficient when pedaling.
it's hard to tell, because of the fact that the randonneur bars are more narrow on the hoods and wider in the drops, whether or not that plays a factor in my problem...
or if the handlebars just have a longer reach than what i'm used to.
the bike really does feel great, it's just a tad stretched on the hoods.
i forgot to slide the saddle back to the "normal" position... but that's another thing, the way the rails are set up, it won't really let me slide very much forward before they "separate". i basically moved about a centimeter back from where it was when i got it.

another thing is that it's a threaded stem... does this make it harder to "test" out different stems? don't you have to undo all the handlebar tape and brake levers? i'd be glad to do some test runs if it's a fairly painless (and cheap) endeavor.

thanks for the help so far

Camilo

The link to Sheldonbrown above is for their section on threaded stems - aka quill stems, aka goosenecks. They are indeed generally more of a fuss to change because you have to remove tape and brake lever from one side of the handlebars. You can now buy them in a style (don't know what they call it) that are like threadless stems in the way they connect to the handlebars, no need to remove tape. I think that Sheldonbrown.com site has examples of that.

If you so desire, for about $20 you can get an adapter that replaces the vertical portion of the quill stem and allows you to use threadless type stems. Probably called something like threaded to threadless stem adapter. That would indeed make it much easier to find and experiment with various lengths and angles of stems. You lose the classic look of the quill stem though, in case that matters.

You should set up the seat position according to pedaling position first though.

Your comment about the fit being "different" rather than wrong is a good one. I always give myself 50-100 miles over at least 3-4 rides before pronouncing judgment over a tweak I've made in fit. Like a bike fitter once told me, sometimes you get comfortable in a poor fit and the better fit feels worse at first.

operator

1) THey are called quill stems with removeable faceplate. Cheap and easy to get. e.g https://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...Road+Stem.aspx
2) Threaded to threadless adapter https://www.profile-design.com/2006_p...converter.html

Old School

+1
I did this on my Trek 5500 -- you can get the threadless stem adapter for around $10 from Nashbar.
https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...20Road%20Stems
It replaces the quill stem itself. Gives you a more modern "threadless" look and more options with a threadless type stem.

GoJacob

i was strongly debating whether or not to go with the threadless adapter, but i'd really like to retain the quill stem look (and the fact that I think i know what length i would need... and getting just a quill stem would be a touch cheaper) if all else fails, i can try the threadless adapter before selling it.

the miyata i'm used to riding has a top tube of 56cm (c-c) and an 11cm stem.
this nishiki has a 62cm (c-c) top tube with a 12cm stem.
I'm 6'3" with a 33-35 inseam (33" from my jeans and that the nishiki has a standover height of 34.5" and the clearance is perfect!)

the miyata is great and stiff and quick but too cramped for longer rides.
the nishiki is whamm-o smooth and silky and nicely spread out, except for that touch of stretch in the stem.
when looking at the stem, it looks pretty long and like it could be shortened up...

If i bring my hands back off the hoods about 2 cm, it feels like the sweet spot.

what i think i'm going to do is...
i'm going to ebay a vintage 100mm stem -- or should i go with this one? wouldn't this newer one be lighter than something older?
i'm going to replace the bars too... i need something wider -- the current bars are 37cm! wide on the hoods and 42 on the widest part of the drops -- just not wide enough for me (<--- i have a feeling that this is where my problem might be coming from)

if the bike still doesn't feel right -- which doesn't seem likely because it feels pretty close to perfect now and i'll try the threadless + testing different length stems at the LBS-- then i will put all the original components on it and just sell it. that way i can still have all my aftermarket parts for a new project.

i will post a picture of me on the bike so you guys can have a look at the fit.

thanks for the recommendations!