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  1. #1
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Sugino cranks - fitting and adjustment.

    CASE CLOSED ..... PROBLEM NOW SORTED THANKS.




    Hi - I wonder if anybody can help me here.

    I bought a bike almost new off Ebay. It's expensive - hand built. The guy who had it sold it because his circumstances had changed.

    The bike had done about twenty miles when I got it and now it's done 140.

    Today, in the middle of a forty mile spin, the Sugino direct drive cranks started coming adrift. I'd heard creaking for about fifteen miles and had tried tightening various hex bolts on the chain wheels, seat post and so on to eliminate the sounds, but as it got worse and interfered with gear changing, I spotted what was going on.

    This crank set goes right through a hollow bottom bracket and has a kind of disk nut that pulls the main spider piece hard up to the left side (see black threaded disk at bottom right of picture) where a cottered left hand crank arm seems to bolt the whole lot up tight. Just using common sense, it looks like the black disk nut pulls the right hand crank up against the Bottom Bracket and pre-loads it, and the tightening of the two hex bolt cotter pins holds it all together. I've never seen a crank set like this, and though I think I have it about right now, I wonder if any of you bike mechanics can confirm how tight I should have it all pulled together. This picture below is a crankset like the one I've got, but I can't fully confirm that this is the exact one, because mine has three chain wheels.

    Last edited by EvilV; 09-12-07 at 01:06 PM.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  2. #2
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Read the sticky READ ME thread at the top of the forum page.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

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  3. #3
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    Read the sticky READ ME thread at the top of the forum page.
    Reading the stickies is not any help. In my original post it can be seen that I am asking how these Sugino cranks should be installed. There is no information either with the bike documentation, or on the manufacturer's website about how to fit them correctly. Since it came apart within 120 miles of assembly by the manufacturer, it obviously isn't foolproof, or something I should leave to guess work. The 'stickie's' dismissal of situations such as, 'my pedal fell off,' are not relevant.

    So, if any bike mechanic reads this, and has experience of fitting sugino cranksets that pass through the hollow bottom bracket, I'd be very pleased to know how to do it in a way that it will stay together.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
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    Sugino road cranksets are pretty rare. But I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you got a good deal on the crankset for a reason.

    But, to properly install, you need to install that end cap first. And then clinch the left crank arm bolts. Use a torque wrench if possible. Tighten them down pretty well if you don't... which you probably don't. I've never seen this style of crank fall off.

    FSA K-Force cranks have had the same problem this year. Completely different style of cranks but there's nothing you can do about it. If you've done all you can, take it to your LBS to install. When it falls off the second time, then you understand the great price and why someone is selling it on Ebay. I'll check roadbikereview.com and see what comes up.... because again, Sugino's are popular amongst the track bikes, not so much with road bikes. I had no idea they made a hollowtech-type crank.

    Edit: Changed a "good" to a "well."
    Last edited by Tapeworm21; 09-13-07 at 01:42 AM.

  5. #5
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Thanks Tapeworm21.

    I appreciate your help.

    It was a whole bike I bought - which was almost brand new, not just the BB. Your comments fit pretty much with what I did, except I don't have the torque wrench, so I snugged the end cap up with a firm wrist action and the small allen key wrench, followed by tightening the cotter pin bolts.

    I'll keep a close eye on it in future, and promptly investigate creaking from the cranks.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
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    There's NOTHING on roadbikereview.com about this crank. I think you should cut your losses if it comes loose again. Please don't sell it to the next guy... someone's going to die I quit selling K-Force cranks when I first heard... and I see a bunch of them on craigslist. Barely ridden to boot!

    My best advice:

    Have the crank arms on the bike and take it to the bike shop. It won't cost much if it's all set up to be tightened down... hopefully. Just be 100% sure it's product failure.

    Cranks that I KNOW don't fall off:

    FSA Gossamer
    Shimano anything
    SRAM anything

    Stay with hollowtech though, it's pretty badass. And simple.

  7. #7
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Thanks again... points noted.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by vpiuva View Post
    No way to get enough torque with a small allen key wrench
    The end cap (see lower left of photo up top) is an aluminium disk screwed in an aluminium crank. The purpose of that part is to draw the crank up against the BB bearing and pull the left hand crank up firmly. The big hold seems to be taken care of by two steel cotter bolts that go through the left hand crank, clamping it onto the steel through piece that can be seen extending from the right hand crank and chainwheels. I did those up pretty tight, but again by hand with a multitool.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapeworm21 View Post
    There's NOTHING on roadbikereview.com about this crank. I think you should cut your losses if it comes loose again. Please don't sell it to the next guy...
    Sugino makes quality cranksets, the fact that it's a road oriented crank has nothing to do with it. Most likely the crank was not properly assembled / torqued down. It would be fairly safe to assume that the torque values would be equivalent to similar cranks from other manufacturers.

    Have you tried emailing Sugino? I know the kids in FixedGear have gotten responses back on questions concerning the 75 crakset.
    Last edited by dobber; 09-13-07 at 07:08 AM.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  10. #10
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobber View Post
    Sugino makes quality cranksets, the fact that it's a road oriented crank has nothing to do with it. Most likely the crank was not properly assembled / torqued down. It would be fairly safe to assume that the torque values would be equivalent to similar cranks from other manufacturers.

    Have you tried emailing Sugino? I know the kids in FixedGear have gotten responses back on questions concerning the 75 crakset.
    That's a good idea. Now why didn't I think of that?

    Thanks.

    I'll do it now.

    The quality of the crank is good. The bike cost £1450, although since the guy had it for a week, I didn't pay that. The components are good quality, so I'm sure it was a lazy assembly man that caused the problem. After all, the cheapest crank woulndn't have come apart in 120 miles unless it had been badly installed.

    Cheers.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  11. #11
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilV View Post
    That's a good idea. Now why didn't I think of that?
    Brain fart? Having used the corporate email route on more than a few occasions and with a good success rate, it's the second thing I go for, the first being a through Google search.

    Hope it's just a matter of tightening things up. Hope nothing got rounded off or otherwise compromised.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  12. #12
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    The Sugino cranks are very nice. There is nothing rare, discount or defective about them, and Sugino has been making cranksets for road bikes for a very long time. This crankset is OEM on many of the '07 Specialized road bikes. I've been looking at the triple version of this same crank as a possible candidate to build up an '80's vintage touring bike that I have, that I would like to keep true to the vintage polished aluminum parts of that era.

    This is one of Sugino's "Direct Drive" series -- either one of the "Alpina", or "XD" models.

    To properly secure it, you will want to tighten the part that you refer to as the "threaded disk" just enough to snug the crankarm up against the BB assembly (on my Shimano XT crankset, which is quite similar, the spec is 5 nano-meters - which is like nothing -- just enough to remove any gap). It's the hex-bolts in the crankarm itself that provide all the holding power, and that is what you need to get sufficiently tight and then recheck often until you are sure it will not work loose again -- maybe even use some blue Loctite or other threadlock compound.

    When these outboard bearing cranksets first came out with the XTR and Dura Ace, soon followed by XT and Ultegra and now many others, a lot of people were overtightening them.

  13. #13
    MADE IN HONG KONG
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    The "cotter pin", actually a "pinch bolt". don't go crazy on these, they don't need that much torque. a good hex key would do. However, it is never a bad idea to clean out the splines (on both the arm and the spindel) and check that there is nothing stuck in that gap prevent you from pinching ont he spindel.

    cheers
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
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    Also, tighten the bolts evenly. Don't tighten one down, and then the other. Go back and forth.

  15. #15
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Hey thanks for the advice you fellows. I did pretty well what you said Ginsoakedboy, although I may have done up the threaded disk bit a wee bit more than you say. Noting the kind of material though I was carefull not to put on gorrilla force or anything, just a snug wrist action to pull it in. Then Like Tapeworm says, I did the pinch bolts up and went back and forth on them.

    I think you've settled the issue between you all now. It'll be ok, but I will keep a careful eye on any creaks or developing play around that region. I was kind of gobsmacked when the crank started moving under me and on looking I discovered it wobbling about.... It's not as if the bike was a real cheap one or anything. It rides great though, and apart from this matter, I'm very happy with it.

    Thanks guys.

    Case closed.............................................................................................. ..............
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    Read the sticky READ ME thread at the top of the forum page.
    Fail
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilV View Post
    Reading the stickies is not any help. In my original post it can be seen that I am asking how these Sugino cranks should be installed. There is no information either with the bike documentation, or on the manufacturer's website about how to fit them correctly. Since it came apart within 120 miles of assembly by the manufacturer, it obviously isn't foolproof, or something I should leave to guess work. The 'stickie's' dismissal of situations such as, 'my pedal fell off,' are not relevant.

    So, if any bike mechanic reads this, and has experience of fitting sugino cranksets that pass through the hollow bottom bracket, I'd be very pleased to know how to do it in a way that it will stay together.

    Agree the cranks come with no install instructions and the web site is useless. The only thing I know from experience is use common sense when installing and hope for the best. Guess that is why they are a good buy. 300 mile on them and they are fine.

  18. #18
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
    Agree the cranks come with no install instructions and the web site is useless. The only thing I know from experience is use common sense when installing and hope for the best. Guess that is why they are a good buy. 300 mile on them and they are fine.
    I emailed the company yesterday as suggested by someone here. Today, I received an answer from Kozo Sugino asking for my postal address so they can send me a new left hand crank and set of pinch bolts. The guy offered profuse apologies and sent me a set of instructions for fitting. Instructions warn against riding with loose cranks as damage or accident may occur. They advice regular checks of security of pinch bolts and end cap.

    I call that pretty good service really.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilV View Post
    I emailed the company yesterday as suggested by someone here. Today, I received an answer from Kozo Sugino asking for my postal address so they can send me a new left hand crank and set of pinch bolts. The guy offered profuse apologies and sent me a set of instructions for fitting. Instructions warn against riding with loose cranks as damage or accident may occur. They advice regular checks of security of pinch bolts and end cap.

    I call that pretty good service really.


    I have tried to find their internet site {sugino** with no luck, does anyone know?
    I just wanted to look @ their cranks

    never mind, found it!
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  20. #20
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    So what's the linkie?
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

  21. #21
    Bicycling Gnome
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    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilV View Post
    I emailed the company yesterday as suggested by someone here. Today, I received an answer from Kozo Sugino asking for my postal address so they can send me a new left hand crank and set of pinch bolts. The guy offered profuse apologies and sent me a set of instructions for fitting. Instructions warn against riding with loose cranks as damage or accident may occur. They advice regular checks of security of pinch bolts and end cap.

    I call that pretty good service really.

    Wow, that is awesome !!
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  23. #23
    Steel Rider
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    Cool. Kozo Sugino is the boss-man of the company; which has 21 employees only.

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